JW's and the Cross (page 4)

greendawn

Heathen, Hitler did not use the Greek cross but the Swastika which is in fact of Hindu Indian origin. If my memory serves me well the cross was used long before Constantine, and it is a symbol of salvation and the difficult narrow way that leads to life.

Hellrider

Rutherford went further and said Jesus was not killed on a cross. However, since the word can have more than one meaning it is impossible to say for sure. The same goes for the people who claim the JW's are definitely wrong and it WAS a cross. Fact is, it is not possible to prove either way.
As for Rutherford's reasoning that the shape had pagan roots, including the worship of Tammuz, he is right. However, that does not prove anything about Jesus' execution. If Satan oversaw the killing of Jesus it would be a good reason to do just that, for the irony.
Today JW's try to defend a position that cannot be proven. In turn, others try to prove the opposite with equal failure. And that's the way it is...

I don`t really agree with this. Who on this board has said that Jesus was killed on a cross, instead of a stake? Personally, I believe it is more likely that he was killed on a cross or a T-shaped cross, the latter being the most common (drom what I`ve understood), but you`re right, noone can know this for sure. But the point is, that it is the WTS and the JWs that have insisted on their supposed "fact" that Jesus was killed on a "torture stake", and that he 100% positively surely guaranteed did not die on a cross. So, the joke is on them, not on the "apostates" or the rest of christianity. The outrage here, against the JWs "torture stake" is often due to the fact that most "apostates" here, one time or another, has had to encounter some know-it-all/graduate-from-the-university-of-Awake "sister", speaking so arrogantly about the rest of christianitys ignorance, because "Jesus did not die on a cross, he died on a stake, the Bible (NWT that is...) says so...". And it is this extreme arrogance combined with ignorance that just pisses me off so bad I feel like punching a hole in the wall. Because, I can tolerate stupid, kind people, and I can tolerate intelligent, bad people, but I just can`t stand stupid, evil people. The make me wanna screeeeaaaaaam!

heathen

greendawn--- My websters states that the swastika is a greek cross . I suggest you look it up for yourself .......

I understand where hellrider is coming from . These people are stupid and evil to the point they condemn any reasoning from any other source but the WTBTS . They don't even question the fact that the NWT writers did not hold degrees in ancient greek or hebrew . They have no credentials whatsoever other than pulling the FDS status out of their ass and demanding that members agree with them .

Sunspot

These people are stupid and evil to the point they condemn any reasoning from any other source but the WTBTS . They don't even question the fact that the NWT writers did not hold degrees in ancient greek or hebrew . They have no credentials whatsoever other than pulling the FDS status out of their ass and demanding that members agree with them

It is true that the JWs swallow everything the WTS says, regardless of how truthful or valid it may be. When you look even more closely, you will find that the WTS is anti-christian in it's teachings and practices.

They have stopped celebrating Christ's birth,

not only do they not celebrate the resurrection of Christ---but treat this as "just any other day" in Watchtowerland,

they don't celebrate the communion of Jesus-but have turned it into a mockery of confusion and refusal of the "emblems" except by their own very few and "approved" members,

they don't baptize in the way that Jesus purposely set down at Matthew, but have changed it to include an "organization" which Jesus never mentioned during his ministry,

they didn't even find it necessary to adopt the name "Christian" until THIS century....but the 1st century followers were called Christians, thus setting the pattern that "most other religions" would then follow,

they won't use the word "church" even though the bible has a lot to say on "the church", but the NWT is revised to change this too,

and finally, the Cross that they sneer and scoff at---and make derogatory comments about---which is THE universal identifying symbol OF and FOR Christianity......and recognized as such....

And the WTS STILL insists that it is Christian????

Hardly.

tmo1965

...the point is: "Pagans" crucified him. I don`t think they would take any consideration to the beliefs of the one they were crucifying in the first place

Excellent point. That whole "well the pagans did it so it can't be right" argument is very lame IMO.

James Free

But the point is, that it is the WTS and the JWs that have insisted on their supposed "fact" that Jesus was killed on a "torture stake", and that he 100% positively surely guaranteed did not die on a cross.

My point exactly. You said you did not agree but then repeated what I said, so, sorry if I was not clear enough. It is a case that can not be proven, but Rutherford insisted it was not a cross and that is the JW view today. Likewise, those who may insist the opposite are equally intransigent and would also be unable to prove their point.

It is an important issue, not because of the 'cross or not cross' issue, but as an example of how the Org. will decide something and then insist they are right to the exclusion of all other possibilities. Later, they are often forced to retract a view. But instead of saying 'oops we were wrong' they will say they never claimed to be inspired and they were not saying it 100% etc. when their quickly 'out of print' publications said otherwise. Simply put, they are not honest.

JW's and the Cross