Need advise...conditional love and it's coverup

by alamb 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • alamb

    I need help. Someone give me the words.

    My brother's wife recently had a baby. She was DF'd shortly before their marriage but is attending meetings. My parents are overjoyed at the new grandchild. I have been DA'd for 7 years and have two children my parents have never bothered to meet. My ex recently took my daughters to visit my parents, brother, his wife, and my new nephew. This is against 3 court orders the court issued to counteract shunning and it's use to alienate my daughters from me.

    The court ordered that as long as my parents shun me, they are to have no contact with my children through my ex...all JW's. This is regularly violated and I can't afford to go back to court to continually regulate this.

    THe court ordered that my ex cannot take my children to my parents home as my father molested me and this was admitted to in court by my own mother who said I was "over 12" and "old enough". The judge told her to take her pious attitude and leave and he had a recess because he was subsequently ill. Alot like I feel now.


    "Mr. M shall not directly or indirectly expose or allow the children to be exposed to shunning of their mother, or to engage in any family contacts or religious activities that directly or indirectly suggest or expose them to teachings, scriptural interpretations or declarations that Mrs. M is anything less than a good and honorable person and fully worthy of designated, implied, inferred, promised, reserved, assumed, or otherwise available, obtainable or receivable, so called spiritual blessings or rewards which might be obtained or available to faithful religious persons, including faithful members of the JW church. This shall include his exposure of the children to family members, church teachers, preachers, or other advocates of the JW church or to any condemning doctrines or activities. Mr. M shall not have, suggest or cause any religious communications with the children, advise them regarding religion or direct or advise them regarding what their personal conduct or religious activities should be, or monitor their activities to determine if they are in compliance with his religious beliefs, while they are with Mrs. M."

    "The court believes this conduct negatively affecting the children's relationship with their mother should stop or be condemned. This church judgementalism, coupled with the malicious use of false accusations against their mother and her husband by their father, has nearly frightened these children away from their mother and her husband een though she is a sincere caring mother. Mrs. M is treated as spiritually dead by the JW church and the extended family who are members.

    This ridiculous concept of people judging others appears to be a strong part of the religious judgementalistic doctrine and is apparently required of the members of the church."

    " long as these children attend church and are indoctrinated in the "only true way" as interpreted by that church, they will continue to be
    exposed to negative judgmentalism and derogation of their mother...Mr. M's religious zeal has apparently caused him to justify his past gross
    misconduct in this case...."


    My father is now phoning my cell phone and sending photos of the new baby. I have spoken to my daughters about conditional/unconditional love and the difference and the arrogance of shunning and it's effects on all of us in this mess....especially my two younger children who cannot and should not meet their grandparents. They should have a chance to meet their only cousin. He said my daughters had brought up the fact that I feel they don't love me. This is not what I was saying. I told them true love isn't conditional and that I was not going anywhere just because I don't sit in a Kingdom Hall anymore. I was not disfellowshipped for any wrong-doing, to set the record straight.

    My father is asking that I not give the older children the impression that they don't love me because that puts them in a strange situation....the situation they created by abusing me and then shunning me conveniently. How do I answer this? I am at a loss as to their involving my daughters in breaking the law, ignoring my rights as their mother, putting first the demands of an organization who has no interest in their welfare by exposing them to a pedophile who is active in the congregation, and the list goes on.

    Give me the words...please.

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    Let me get this:

    1) My ex recently took my daughters to visit my parents, brother, his wife, and my new nephew. This is against 3 court orders the court issued to counteract shunning and it's use to alienate my daughters from me.

    2) My father is now phoning my cell phone and sending photos of the new baby.

    I don't understand why they even have your cell phone number - and why they are even able to contact you.

    3) They should have a chance to meet their only cousin.

    Does the only cousin's parents see it that way ? If not, then that's just how it is.

    As for your own rights, I would be acting promptly.

  • candidlynuts

    am bumping this up so maybe someone will have some good words for you.

    to me.. it shouldnt be an issue..they shouldnt have any contact with your father or any other family member that may cause the children confusion. since it IS an issue.. i dont know.. tell your dad that your kids dont need his kind of love, its your pure love that is protecting those kids. use what legal means you can to make sure your ex doesnt expose them to your parents again. i hope someone has some good advice for you. hugs

  • orbison11

    if this is a direct court order that they not see their grandparents, can you not just call the police?


  • alamb

    A court order is a civil order. The police could document their presence together so I could bring it before a judge...which would be at least $2000 to get started. Then we go into discovery, testimony, correspondence between attorneys, etc. and they play games with you.

    I am only trying to protect my children...all of them...the little ones and the older ones. Although it is hard as the older ones are JW mentality and see me as having cut myself off from my family via disassociation and that I should beg forgiveness to return from leaving Jehovah. *gag*

    They got my phone numbers from my daughters.

    I am in the process of addressing this with my ex who thinks he can walk on court orders with Jehovah's help and violate them left and right. I am writing e-mails and hard copy letters. I am considering threatening the elders, etc. with legal action for violating this order, which I'm sure they don't know exists. They may put a stop to it to save their own butts.

    Thank you for the replies....if you think of anything, feel free.

  • Rook

    Hi, i don't know much about Legal subjects, but consider looking up Your gonna pay $25.00per month for the membership but it's alot better than paying $200.00 an hour. Hope it works out for you.

  • MidwichCuckoo

    Personally I would contact Child Protection (Social Services).....and as for legal cost - Legal Aid?

  • Clam

    Midwich I was going to offer that advice but I'm confused.

    ALamb has got a Union Flag up but is talking about Dollards and Attorneys (?)

  • TallTexan

    If your ex is breaking the law, can you not deny him visitation? I know in the States you can deny visitation to the ex if you can prove that that person is breaking the law and thus putting your children in danger. While they may not be in physical danger (although, with your father they might) the court has already recognized that they are in mental danger and thus issued the court order.

    While it would be hard on your children, you have to do what's best for them. How many kids like to be told what to do even if it's for their own good? If the older ones are already showing JW tendencies, you need to act fast for their sake.

    Honestly, I'm impressed that you got the court order at all. Do the authorities not pick up the tab in prosecuting someone in violation of a court order?

    I would definitely contact your ex's elder body and inform them that he is breaking the law and that you will contact the authorities and every media outlet you can find. Call up the Guardian - they love dirt on JW's - and tell them that your ex is breaking the law with the full knowledge of your parents and the organization. Tell them this is routinely done and clue them in on the 'spiritual warfare' clause which permits lying in court.

  • cyberdyne systems 101
    cyberdyne systems 101

    Do you have Citizens Advice in Scotland? They maybe able to give advice or find an agency that can help. Sorry to hear your going through such a difficult time, take care


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