Validity of 607 BCE date

by stevieb1 119 Replies latest jw friends

  • cyberguy
    cyberguy

    Your comment:

    >> The Bible is always found to be trustworthy, and Christians would trust the Bible
    >> over profane astronomical and business records that are fallible

    Very interesting comment! Unfortunately, the 607 date itself is based on your so-called "profane astronomical and business records," how so? Well, the 607 date is calculated from 537 (606 - 537 is 70 years). Where do you think they got the 537 date from? The Bible? WRONG! Where else, but your "profane astronomical and business records!"

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    My Bible contains neither the date 607 BCE or 587 BCE. It doesn't have a date of 539 BCE, 537 BCE or 14 AD. So all its chronology has to be tied to secular dates. As to when the "70" years began check what the Bible actually says about the beginning event.

    Don't forget "the Society" (Scholar's term) used to say 606 BCE as the date for Jerusalem's destruction and adjusted the year to fit 1914 for its totally unrelated set of number crunching (2520 years).

    Thirdson

    'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

  • buffalosrfree
    buffalosrfree

    Scholar you mentioned abundant evidence...... which is??????

    Cyberguy you mentioned that the date 607 is based upon profane and astronomical business record just which ones are you prefering to.??

    And using wtbts literature is not evidence, not on this forum, so well what evidence are you referring to give examples and cite specifics please???? Buff

  • cyberguy
    cyberguy

    >>Cyberguy you mentioned that the date 607 is based upon profane and astronomical
    >> business record just which ones are you prefering to.??

    Actually, I'm referring to a 609 date, that the Society adjusts from a known 539 date (through some historical maneuvering/manipulation, they shave off 2 years!). However, my actual views are based on the following:

    For my biblical and chronological calculations, I've relied on a number of sources. Foremost, however, are the

    (1) Handbook of Biblical Chronology, by Jack Finegan, revised 1998 edition, Hendrickson Publishers, hereafter HndBibChron,
    (2) The Mysterious Numbers of the Hebrew Kings, by Edwin Thiele, revised 1994, The Zondervan Corporation, hereafter MystNumrs, and
    (3) Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles, by A.K. Grayson, Eisenbruns, 2000 reprint edition, hereafter AssynBabylnChron.

    The accepted (non-JW) date of Jerusalm's fall, is July 18, 586 B.C.E. -- see HndBibChron, p. 259, section 442.

    In the first place, this more widely accepted date takes into consideration a number of ancient secular texts that appear to be consistent with each other. According to the AssynBabylnChron's record as analyzed by HndBibChron (see p. 252, sect. 430), the Assyrian Empire ended in 609 B.C.E. Now if Cyrus the Persian took Babylon in 539 B.C.E., the period of 70 years is easy to see, 609-539 = 70.

    From another angle, the Ptolemy Canon lists the duration of Babylonian rulers and includes important references to Nabopolassar, Nebuchadnezzar, Amel-Marduk, Nergal-shar-usur, Nabonidus. Now if Nabopolassar drove Ashur-uballit out of Haran in Nabopolassar's 16th year and the next year he defeated the combined Egyptian and Assyrian forces, thus bringing the Assyrian Empire to an end in 609 B.C.E. in his 17th year (see HndBibChron p. 252, sect. 430, p. 255, sect 434), we can derive the following calculation based on Ptolemy's rulership durations (see MystNumrs p. 227):

    4 Nabopolassar (= 21 years - 17th year for the year he defeated the Assyrian forces)
    + 43 Nebuchadnezzar
    + 2 Amel-Marduk
    + 4 Nergal-shar-usur
    + 17 Nabonidus
    _________________________

    70 years of servitude to Babylon

    Finally, the Assyrian eponym canon and Ptolemy cannon agree where they overlap; both provide a correlation of eclipses to dates and rulers (see chapter 4 of MystNumrs). Furthermore, Ptolmey's eclipse dates make references to the aforementioned Babylonian rulers by year, month and day. Thus, the dated eclipses are consistent with the chronology discussed herein. Finally, these eclipses have also been verified via calculations done a few years ago on a supercomputer by scientists (members of the Association for Computing Machinery) trying to prove/disprove the accuracy the of Ptolemy cannon.

  • TheOldHippie
    TheOldHippie

    Just for the record, Furuli's book (about which information was given too early and inaccurately at Elihu) is not about 607, but deals with the difficulties/impossibilities of adjusting Bible and secular chronologies to each other. It is therefore not a book trying to justify 607.

  • Zep
    Zep
    Actually, I'm referring to a 609 date, that the Society adjusts from a known 539 date (through some historical maneuvering/manipulation, they shave off 2 years!).

    The WT interprets the 70 year prophecy of Jeremiah to mean 70 years of exile in Babylon. They chose the date of 537 as being the end of that exile -when jews returned home- because it suits their nutcase prophectic ideas based around 1914.

    537-70=607BC + that 7 times dribble = 1914

    However, there is no reason to think 537 is correct....more likely the jews returned in 538. This is according to scholars.
    The only real concrete dates are 539 and 586. Both dates are based on the same evidence. The absurdity of the WT position is that it rejects 586 but accepts 539. This is blatant hypocrisy....totally dishonest, idiotic etc etc. They use the evidence when it suits them(539 of which they derive 537 from) and then reject that same evidence when it also supports 586. In fact 586 is considered as more concrete a date than 539 by scholars....try telling the WT that.

  • qwerty
    qwerty

    Try this well put together site.......

    http://www.607v587.com/

    qwerty

  • Norm
    Norm

    Is the Watchtower loyal to the Bible?

    The Watchtower Society, always claim that if there's a disagreement between what they call Biblical Chronology and secular chronology they take the side of the Bible.

    This sounds very nice, but is it really so? First of all, to claim that there is disharmony between secular and Biblical chronology is false. It is creating a false dilemma. It is creating confusion in the mind of the unsuspecting Witness. In particular regarding the "neo Babylonian" chronology, where there is complete harmony between the relative chronology of the Bible and the absolute secular chronology.

    In the real world the dividing lines are drawn between the well-documented secular and Biblical chronology, and the totally unfounded and unsupported Watchtower chronology.

    I will now present facts about how far the Watchtower are willing to go, what they are ready to do, to make their precious fabricated chronology to appear "true". They have absolutely no scruples with changing Bible text's to save their unfounded speculation, which is based on the idea that the destruction of Jerusalem took place in 607 BCE.

    Maybe the most serious examples of this we find in the book "Babylon the Great has Fallen" published in 1963. In this book the most incredible acrobatics are performed in order to preserve the precious
    Watchtower chronology. Take a look at this:

    "Zion Clashes with Babylon
    It was at that time that the young Daniel and three special companions were taken exile to Babylon. In Daniel 1:1 he writes about it: "In the third year of the kingship of Jehoiakim the king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and proceeded to lay siege to it." Babylon the Great has fallen, 1963, page 136.
    This text in Daniel 1:1 strikes a devastating blow to the Watchtower chronology, so therefore its meaning must be altered at all cost's. Take a look at this fantastic piece of reasoning that follows:

    " This was after King Jehoiakim had rebelled against the king of Babylon, after being a vassal for about three years. Hence the expression "in the third year of the kingship of Jehoiakim the king of Judah" means in the third year of Jehoiakim as a vassal king paying tribute to Babylon. Since his vassalage began after he reigned eight years in Jerusalem, this third year of his reign as Babylon's vassal would be the eleventh year of his entire reign at Jerusalem and would be due to end by the Jewish lunar calendar on Adar 29, 617 BCE., or March 19, 617 BCE." Babylon the Great has Fallen, 1963, page 136.
    Here we can see the Watchtowers "loyalty" to the Bible when a simple text "MUST" mean something else than what it say's. Here Brooklyn had to tell the readers what Daniel, the poor bungler "really meant". He couldn't get anything right, after all he was just one of Jehovah's prophets and he was there at the time, so what did he know about Nebuchadnezzar and when he reigned?

    Another fact we have to take into consideration it that when you have been appointed Jesus "slave" since 1919, you are entitled to alter the Bible as you see fit. Especially if it doesn't support your own chronology. But what is it about the Society's chronology that makes the alteration of Bible texts necessary? This becomes even more apparent when the "Babylon book" comes to the text in Daniel 2:1, which states:

    "And in the second year of the kingship of Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams; and his spirit began to feel agitated, and his very sleep was made to be something beyond him."
    Here Daniel states simple and clear that he was indeed present in Babylon in Nebuchadnezzar's second year of kingship. But this would of course ruin the Society's chronology completely, so therefore this Bible text HAS TO mean something else. According to the Watchtower chronology Nebuchadnezzar was crowned as king in 625, and Daniel wasn't taken into exile before 612, 8 years later. Therefore it becomes so important for the Watchtower that Daniel couldn't have been in Babylon when he himself say's he was. This Bible text therefore HAS TO mean something else then what is written there.
    The Watchtower, when confronted with these two texts has a clear choice. Both of these texts clearly prove that their own chronology isn't in harmony with the Bible. What do they do? Are they true to the Bible and change their chronology? The facts show what choice the Watchtower Society made. The same choice they always do when it stands between the Bible and their own teachings. They choose their own teachings over the Bibles. Just look at what the Babylon book say:

    "Waiting in Exile for Babylon's Fall
    How, then, shall we understand the statement in Daniel 2:1? It reads: "And in the second year of the kingship of Nebuchadnezzar,… However, the most reasonable and fitting suggestion is that this refers to the "second year" from a marked event, namely, from Nebuchadnezzar's destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C. Babylon the Great has Fallen, 1963, page 172.
    Notice the phrase: "the most reasonable and fitting suggestion". The most "reasonable and fitting suggestion" for whom? Why does this Bible text need any "suggestions" at all? Where is the need for any explanations at all about the very simple fact that Daniel himself states that he himself was PRESENT in Babylon in the second year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign? What makes such an operation at all necessary? Only because of the Watchtower Society's own chronology do they have to come up with a "reasonable and fitting" way of muddling the clear statements of the Bible. To whom is the Watchtower showing loyalty? Is it the Bible? When the prophet Daniel under “inspiration” say the he himself was present in Babylon during the second year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign, the Watchtower trough some fantastic acrobatics of rewriting the Bible want us to believe that this was really in the twentieth year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign! Is this the Society idea of standing on the side of the Bible?

    If we should take the Watchtower Society's far-fetched reasoning serious we would come into conflict with several other Bible texts. For example Jeremiah 25:1

    "The word that occurred to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Je•hoi'a•kim the son of Jo•si'ah, the king of Judah, that is, the first year of Neb•u•chad•rez'zar the king of Babylon;"
    (That Daniel 1:1 say the "third year" , while Jeremiah say the fourth year, are due to the fact that Daniel counted whole years of reign, but Jeremiah counts the accession year even though it wasn't a full year. Nebuchadnezzar was crowned as king the first of Nisan in 605, his first whole year was therefore 604 .) When according to Jeremiah, Je•hoi'a•kim the king of Judah's fourth year (third whole year) was
    Nebuchadnezzar's first year and when Daniel 1:1 say's that Nebuchadnezzar came and lay siege to Jerusalem and took captives , among those Daniel according to verse 6:

    "Now there happened to be among them some of the sons of Judah, Daniel, Han•a•ni'ah, Mish'a•el and Az•a•ri'ah." Daniel 1:6.
    Then we have the Bible stating that Daniel really was present in Babylon in the second year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign! Not in his twentieth year as the Society will have us believe.

    Here we have got an excellent demonstration of the kind of respect the Watchtower has for the Bible.
    The self appointed prophet in Brooklyn the great F&DS treats the Bible as they see fit. They own the "truth" and therefore they define what is truth. It seems to be their private property.

    But how about those texts that we have been touching upon here? Can a satisfactory explanation be found? Yes, if we want to explore the very solid documentation, which exist regarding the neo Babylonian chronology that is in harmony with the Biblical. According to this chronology Nebuchadnezzar conquered Jerusalem in 605 BCE, and took away among others Daniel and his 3 friends. If you investigate this chronology you don't have to massacre Daniel 1:1 and 2:1 to make it fit a completely constructed chronology because then Daniel really was present in Babylon in the second year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign!

    Considering that Nebuchadnezzar's first whole year of reign was 604, his 18th year of reign. (19th year, if counted from his accession year 605, like the Jew's did, cr. Jer. 52:12) would 587 BCE, be the year he destroyed Jerusalem , which is confirmed by both secular and Biblical chronology.

    Well, where in the Bible do you find it stated that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587, some may ask?
    This isn't surprising. The overwhelming evidence that supports the year 587, are effectively kept away from rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses. Lets us look at some real good evidence, which is accidentally given, in the Watchtowers own literature, and where we again get a good demonstration of how little Brooklyn care about the Bible. We find this in the book "Paradise restored, from 1972, where the texts in Zechariah 1: 7-12 is discussed. According to verse 7, Zechariah had this vision in the second year of the reign of Darius. The book points to the fact that this was happening in 519 BCE Let us look at the Bible text:

    "And they proceeded to answer the angel of Jehovah who was standing among the myrtle trees and to say: "We have walked about in the earth, and, look! The whole earth is sitting still and having no disturbance." So the angel of Jehovah answered and said: "O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years?" Zechariah 1:11-12.
    As mentioned above, the Paradise Restored book dates this vision to the year 519 BCE. At that time
    Jehovah had denounced Jerusalem and the cities of Judah for 70 years:

    "No wonder that, back there in 519 BCE, the angelic scouts reported the whole earth as without disturbance!" Paradise Restored. 1972, page 128.
    So far, so good. But let us see what happens next. Is the Watchtower writes satisfied with the fact that in 519 B.C.E Jehovah had been denouncing, Jerusalem and the cities of Judah for 70 years? No way, this had to be explained away, and now it really gets pathetic:

    "Mercy to the Persecuted but Judgment to Persecutors
    So did Jehovah's angel mean that those seventy years had not yet ended, or that they had just now ended? This could not historically be true." Paradise Restored. 1972, page 131.
    Believe it or not it gets worse, the book continues on page 132:

    "... ,why would the angel, knowing what he did, speak as he did? Since he knew that the time period was definitely seventy years long, why would he say: "O Jehovah of armies, how long?" Paradise Restored. 1972, page 132.
    Yes, why indeed? Why should this angel make such problems for the Society's precious chronology about the year 607? What Jehovah's angel said couldn't: "HISTORICALLY BE TRUE"!! Hey folks, an angel whose words are recorded in the Bible cant be TRUE! Dear oh dear. No, how can we expect that any old angel should have a clue what he talks about? Why couldn't this troublesome angel keep his mouth shut and stop creating such embarrassment for the Society's chronology?

    Well, what the angel said makes perfect sense and was in full harmony with history if you consider it in the light of the "secular/Biblical chronology". But as demonstrated here, truth and facts are without any interest whatsoever for the Watchtower Society. To them the continued existence of a totally unfounded chronology is far more important. Why is it of such outmost importance for the Watchtower to create the impression that this angel was talking trough his hat? Well, if you count 70 years from the year 519 BCE, you will end at the year 589 BCE, when the final siege of Jerusalem started, exactly as this terrible "secular" chronology states. And now this impertinent angel and consequently the Bible confirm that this is correct! But it doesn't stop here. When the "Paradise Restored" book attacks the texts at Zechariah 7: 1-5, they really take off. Here we get another sterling example of the Watchtowers "loyalty" to the Bible.

    Here we get another clear date: "Darius fourth year". When his second year was 519 BCE, his fourth year must be 517 BCE, at this time the Jew's had "fasted" and "wailed" for "seventy years" according to verse 5:

    "Say to all the people of the land and to the priests, 'When YOU fasted and there was a wailing in the fifth [month] and in the seventh [month], and this for seventy years, did YOU really fast to me, even me?" Zechariah 7:5.
    Interestingly enough the "Paradise Restored" book admits on page 235:

    "Fasting over God's Executed Judgments Improper
    It was observed evidently on the tenth day of that month (Ab), in order to commemorate how on that day Nebuzaradan, the chief of Nebuchadnezzar's bodyguard, after two days of inspection, burned down the city of Jerusalem and its temple."
    Paradise Restored 1972, page 235.
    So what does the Society do now? Do they let this text stand? Do they calculate 70 years back from 517 BCE to the year 587 BCE:, when Jerusalem was burned? No of course not! Instead they dedicate several pages to explaining away and create a smokescreen for their loyal readers. Instead of taking into consideration the obvious harmony between the secular dates provided by themselves in the book and the Bible texts, they desperately cling to their pet 607 year, even if it means that the Jew's then had been fasting and wailing, not as the Bible said, for 70 years, but for 90 years!

    This gives us an excellent lesson about how a speculative calculation, completely without any foundation whatsoever gets elevated to be a dogma. How it becomes an eternal "truth" that have to be defended at all costs. It is also an extremely good example of how efficient propaganda works. Just hammer on about 607, and 1914, and it becomes a "truth", which only "opposers" and "apostates" could dream of questioning. What an excellent example of how to con millions of people for years!
    For all their boasting about being the “only ones” who really stick to the Bible, we se how far that goes when the Bible become bothersome for them.

    Norm.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    To stevieb1:

    : Has anyone on here ever come across the tiniest shred of evidence supporting this date for the fall of Jerusalem.

    That depends on what you mean by evidence.

    If you mean Watchtower-style nonsensical evidence, then the answer is Yes.

    If you mean real evidence, then the answer is No.

    The only evidence in support of the Society's chronology is its claim that its teachings are right. There is a mountain of evidence that standard secular chronology is right, with trifling exceptions of a year here and there.

    : I understand Rolf Furuli is about to but something out on this subject (see elihubooks.com), however even a table of contents has been a long time in coming from this site. If no evidence exists what can he possibly be writing about?

    Who knows? Furuli and his buddies have demonstrated themselves to be bright in some ways, but quite braindead when it comes to defending the Society's wrong doctrines. They defend such nonsense only because the Society teaches it.

    A good example of the sort of nonsense put out by JW defenders is this silly little thing from "scholar". I'll address my comments to him.

    : There is an abundant ecidence for 607 as the biblical date for the Fall of Jerusalem.

    Wrong. There is only the Society's word. You go right ahead and list the evidence, if you dare. You'll find that the only 'evidence' you can find is the demonstrably wrong claim that the 70 years prophesied by Jeremiah ended in 537 B.C.E. See below for a simple disproof.

    When the Society drops the date during the next couple of decades, people like you will claim that they never taught anything definite about it.

    : The Society has published how the date is calculated using ancient and biblical history.

    More correctly: they've published distortions of secular and biblical history because of wanting to support a doctrine they don't know how to live without.

    : Likewise there is evidence for other dates such as 587 or 586. All of these dates have some basis for their calculation, these dates are not some conjecture or something that has been imagined. Such dates are sustained by careful scholarship with biblical interpretation. The difference is the methodology of the chronologist and his choice of historical narrative.

    Correct, with the proviso that it is easily demonstrable from the Bible alone that the Society's "methodology" (a misnomer for what Watchtower writers actually do) is wrong.

    : In short you have a choice of which date that you believe is correct, if prophecy is important then go for the 607 date. This date succeeds because it establishes the Gentile Times concluding in 1914. The other dates of 587/586 are useless in that these are dead ends, going nowhere.

    This is a perfect argument that shows just why the Society can't yet do without its chronology: it supports that all-important 1914 date. Without 1914, the entire house of cards collapses, most especially the claims of JW leaders to have been appointed in 1919 to speak especially for God. And of course, every one of the Society's claims about "the composite sign of the end" beginning in 1914 has been proved false. That is an additional proof that 607 is a wrong date.

    : However, the value of these dates lies in their approximation of some twenty years which brings us to the biblically reckoned date of 607.

    No, it's a Watchtower reckoned date.

    : You have a choice. The Society has over many decades has demonstrated that their chronology is scholarly, consistent with ancient astronomy and history. This is well demonstrated in their chronology of our Lord Jesus.

    All of their 'chronology' has been proved bogus. Not a single thing prior to 560 B.C.E. agrees with ancient astronomy. In fact, ancient astronomy completely disproves it. So does ancient history.

    From another post by "scholar":

    : I have the book Gentile Times Reconsidered and am well familiar with its contents. The book in no way invalidates 607 as you might claim.

    Suuure. Just like facts don't invalidate the Society's claims about the "composite sign" of the "1914 generation".

    : Jonsson's hypothesis has its weaknesses as shown in his interpretation of the 70 years,

    Wrong. He presents several possibilities and is not dogmatic about any one of them. The best hypothesis -- which must remain one because there is not enough evidence to prove it -- is that the 70 years began in 609 B.C.E. when the last of the Assyrian Empire was crushed by Babylon, and Babylon began systematically taking over Palestine and the lands round about. However, while the starting date cannot be proved absolutely, the ending date can. The 70 years ended in 539 B.C.E. when, just as Jeremiah 25:12 states, the king of Babylon was called to account by being killed, and the Medo-Persian Empire began ruling. After 539, the Babylonian Empire was nonexistent. This is perfectly consistent with Jeremiah 25:11, which says of Judah and the nations round about, that they would "have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years", and with 2 Chronicles 36:20, which says of the Jews that "they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign." Did you get what the Bible actually says? Note again: the Jews would serve Babylon 70 years until the Persians began to reign -- and not a moment longer. When did the Persians begin to reign? In 539 B.C.E. Therefore the 70 years ended in 539, and not in 537 which is the basis for the Watchtower Society's bogus chronology.

    The Society avoids these two scriptures like the plague. You won't find any commentary at all on this point from 2 Chronicles 36:20 in Watchtower literature. You'll find only a single bit of commentary on Jeremiah 25:12, in a late-1970s Watchtower article that claimed -- get this -- that the "king of Babylon" reigning when they claim the 70 years ended in 537 was actually Cyrus, the king of the Persians! And do you know how they claim Cyrus was "called to account"? By releasing the Jews to go home! Have you ever seen a more forced, or ridiculous interpretation? Isn't it obvious how dishonest and straw-grasping defenders of this bogus WTS 'chronology' must be in order to glean a bit of support from the Bible?

    Note to stevieb1: Since the above arguments cannot be refuted by reference to Watchtower literature, you likely won't see any substantive answer from "scholar".

    : and his inability to determine whether 587 0r 586 is correct.

    Wrong again. Jonsson explains very clearly why he feels that 587 is correct, and cites a number of scholars who agree. The disagreement about the dates is due to one thing only: the Bible sometimes puts the year of Jerusalem's destruction in Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year, and sometimes in his 19th year. Jonsson thoroughly covers this point, too.

    It's pretty obvious that you didn't understand what you claim you read.

    : You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

    Of course, just as some are of the opinion that the earth is flat. But opinions that are demonstrably wrong ain't worth diddly squat.

    Cyberguy and Zep: excellent comments!

    AlanF

  • cyberguy
    cyberguy

    I posted this earlier, but seems like it might fit here…

    In Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy, p. 46 par. 2, the Dan. 2:1 passage, "second year of the kingship of Nebuchadnezzar," is explained to mean the 2nd year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign as world ruler, 606/605 B.C.E., or 2 years after destroying Jerusalem and its temple in 605 B.C.C.. Is this correct? There seams to be a technical problem here, because two different people in Nebuchadnezzar's ruling cabinet, both having the same office of oversight, are in office at the same! In Daniel 2:14-15, Arioch is mentioned as being the "chief to the king's bodyguard" (see Insight, Vol. 1, p. 163, Arioch #2). However, at Jer. 39:9-11, 13; 40:1-2,10, 43:6, 52:14-15, 16, 19, 24, 26, 30, Nebuzaradan is also said to be Nebuchadnezzar's "chief of the bodyguard." He is mentioned as the one who directed the Babylonian operation of destroying the city of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E., (see Insight Vol. 2., p. 482, Nebuzaradan). Furthermore, and here's the key point, 5 years later, which is long past the 606/605 B.C.E. date, Jer. 52:30 states "Nebuzaradan the chief of he bodyguard," took other Jews into exile, apparently those who had fled to surrounding territories. If our chronology is correct for Dan 2:1, then just who was "chief of the bodyguard" at that time? Obviously, this is an important point, because this would call into question whether or not Nebuchadnezzar is being identified as "world ruler" after destroying Jerusalem. This is a key scripture for the 1914 doctrine, because it is the only one that the Society can point to as supporting the notion that Nebuchadnezzar was raised to a position of "world ruler" after destroying Jerusalem. Rather, it is major blow to the teaching if he was raised to that position long before Jerusalem's destruction!

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