New light for the Catholic Church

by TallTexan 17 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • TallTexan

    This may have been covered already, but I missed it if it was.

    A lady I work with who is Catholic told me that not too long ago the new Pope changed the Catholic doctrine on Purgatory - in that now it no longer exists. Of course I couldn't help but think " light...."

    My question to her was "Well, do all the people that paid to get their loved ones out of Purgatory get a refund?"

    What bothers me is that in spite of this, in spite of the rampant pedophilia, Catholicism remains a strong religion. It makes me think that all of our efforts to expose the WTS are a waste - they'll still believe what they want and we'll still be the 'lying apostates'. It's frustrating.....

  • greendawn

    The catolics have some wrong ideas but at least they don't operate in a cultish way with high psychological pressure methods. No one pushes you to do anything and no one shuns you if you don't follow the religion.

  • zagor

    While I don't agree with his worldview I think in terms of religion Karl Marx had it right when he said:

    Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

    In other words it is a fantasyland to which many love to escape to be able to bear the pressures of life, it has nothing or very little to do with reason. Nor do believers need solid scholarly or scientific proof to adhere to its path. It is psychological sphere that offers sense of security, sense of identity and belonging. Which is why religion is simply not compatible with science, and rigorous scholarly investigation, though religionists often desperately try to prove otherwise. Hence, analogy of opium is quite appropriate, it is one of the strongest drugs around and anyone using it has distorted image of reality. Which is also why in order to understand the “truth” as they see it you have to take same drug i.e. become part of them. And once you are part of accepted crowd you can accept any variation in the “truth” no matter how distorted or how changing it was you simply accept is as “mystery of god” regardless how illogical or devious it was.

  • LittleToe

    I've not heard this one. Are you sure she got it right? Are you sure it wasn't just her priest giving his own thoughts on the subject?

    Purgatory is one of the mainstays of Roman Catholic doctrine. It's not directly a salvation issue to them, but it has had an impact on people's lives for centuries. I can't see them dumping it so easily.

  • rebel8

    hmmm I think she might be confused. This link says he maintains the Purgatory teaching: I think if the church dumped such a major teaching, it would have been all over the news internationally.

    I personally don't see a problem with the RC church or any other normal religion modifying its teachings from time to time. RC church doesn't claim it's the one and only true religion--they acknowledge there are other avenues to Heaven. And as the other poster said, membership in that church isn't dangerous and damaging to most members as the WTS is to its members.

  • DaCheech

    Where do unborn (stillborn) children go?

  • GentlyFeral

    Hi rebel8,

    RC church doesn't claim it's the one and only true religion--they acknowledge there are other avenues to Heaven.

    Say what? When did this happen? Wasn't it their own St. Augustine who said Ex ecclesia nullam salus (Outside the church there is no salvation)?

    gently feral

  • rebel8


    Pope John Paul was quoted as saying there are "many paths to God". I cannot find the article online anymore but the citation is: Christian News in a reprint of a 1993 article by Michael A. Hoffman in Researcher, Vol. 4, No. 3; and the 4/93, Flashpoint

    Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
  • Mary

    The catolics have some wrong ideas but at least they don't operate in a cultish way with high psychological pressure methods. No one pushes you to do anything and no one shuns you if you don't follow the religion.
    They did a few hundred years ago...with a nice little think called The Inquisition. Be that as it may, the Catholic Church has certainly relaxed their attitude towards other religions which is a great thing and like you said, they no longer punish you for not following their religion.......Hmmmm.........I wonder if the WTS (assuming it survives another 200 years) will also one day acknowledge that other religions also lead to God.........

  • jschwehm

    Hi TallTexan:

    The Catholic Church has not changed its teachings on Purgatory. Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says about it.

    Jeff S.

    III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

    1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

    1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.604 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. the tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:605

    As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.606

    1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."607 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.608 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

    Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.609

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