The New System, What will we remember?

by drew sagan 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    The reason for this post is based on a conversation I had a few months ago with an elder and a very stubborn publisher. It went like this:
    We where out in service and these two guys started talking about how in the new system everything of the past will be forgotten, "the former thigns will not be called to mind", you know how it goes. Anyway I cound't take it anymore. I decided to get on their nerves a little.
    I asked them "do you really think we won't remember any what we are expierancing today, we will simply forget?".
    "Oh Yes" they replied, "In time we won't remember anything from this troubbled time of mans history, all these bad things will not come up into our minds".
    I asked "Will we still have the Bible?"
    "Of course" they replied
    "Well, the Bible is full of stories about murder, greed, hatred, war, death, pain, sorrow, ect. If we will have the Bible, and it's full of these things, then how would we ever forget them"
    At this point they just got angry and started to talk in circles. Eventually one of them said, "Well, you have a good point".
    I find it amazing how people that feel they have the only "truth" that can be found on this earth hold to such poor reasoning. It shows me that people will believe anything, without ever even thinking about it.

  • IMustBreakAway

    I have had the same fight with people. It starts when i mention that i am going to keep all my books and take them into the NS.. All my worldly books..

  • M.J.

    Another point. According to the WTS our "identity" is defined for the most part by our memories or neurological data if you will. When God "resurrects" people how will that "resurrected" person be the same person anymore if memories aren't transferred?

  • serendipity

    There's a scripture that says that the former things will not be called to mind. Also, with the opening of the 'new scrolls', I wouldn't be adamant that the Bible would still be around.

  • Hellrider

    And point right there, MJ, is much bigger than anyone could imagine. If man has no soul (in the way a normal christian would define the word), but just a "life-force", in the way the JWs would define the word, it would not be your memories anymore, if you had died and been ressurected. It would be someone elses, implanted into your (new...) recreated body.The funny thing is, the JWs view on this, that there is a ressurection but NO soul, is a completely new view in the history of christianity and judaism. The Pharisees, who initially brought the ressurection into judaism, also believed in the soul. Perhaps they actually realized that ressurection without soul (some sort of surviving entity after death) - was a logical impossibility. When the WTS decided to dismiss the soul-doctrine, I bet they didn`t even try to think thru if a ressurection without a soul would even be possible. I had a discussion with a JW on this issue, it starts on bottom of page 18, and goes on thru page 20 (I`m Ba`al, the JW is Dan):

  • jstalin

    Does that mean my porno mags won't make it either?

  • sir82

    You might also ask them (depending on their personal situation):

    "So, you will forget your wedding day? The birth of your first child? The feeling you got when you saw the Grand Canyon for the first time?"

    Etc. Doesn't sound like much of a paradise, if so.

    Although I suppose it shouldn't, the lack of anything remotely resembling a non-shallow thought from most JWs continues to astound me.

  • gringojj

    This has come up several times with me and my wife. I asked her how the new system will be paradise if I get destroyed at armageddon. Surely living forever without your husband is not paradise. She said that she wont remember me. So I said ok but how about the kids. Surely the kids are going to wonder who thier father is. They will look at thier friends and see they have a father......wont they feel a loss because they dont have a dad? Surely this would'nt be paradise.

    If we dont know bad, how can we measure good? There can be no good without bad, and vice versa. The whole idea of paradise is flawed.

  • M.J.

    I just found this:

    *** ts chap. 19 pp. 171-174 Billions Now Dead Will Soon Live Again ***

    What, then, does resurrection mean for the individual? It means his being brought back to life as the same person. And what makes an individual the person he is? Is it the chemical substance making up his body? No, inasmuch as the molecules in the body are regularly being replaced. What really distinguishes him from other people, then, is his general physical appearance, his voice, his personality, his experiences, mental growth and memory. So when Jehovah God, by means of his Son Jesus Christ, raises a person from the dead, he evidently will provide that person with a body having the same traits as previously. The resurrected person will have the same memory that he had acquired during his lifetime and he will have the full awareness of that memory. The person will be able to identify himself, and those who knew him will also be able to do so.

    ‘But if a person is thus re-created,’ someone may say, ‘is he really the same person? Is he not just a copy?’ No, for this reasoning overlooks the fact earlier mentioned that even in life our bodies are constantly undergoing change. About seven years ago the molecules making up our bodies were different from the molecules forming them today. We even differ in appearance as the years go by. Yet, do we not have the same fingerprints? Are we not the same persons? Most certainly.

    Those to whom the resurrection seems almost unbelievable should reflect on a similarly marvelous process that takes place at the time of human conception. The tiny cell that is formed by the uniting of the sperm and the egg has within it the potential for becoming a person different from any other person that has ever lived. Within this cell there are the factors that direct the building of the individual and the forming of the basic personality he inherits from his parents. Then, of course, his life experiences thereafter add to that personality. Similar to what happens at the time of conception, at the time of the resurrection or re-creation the deceased person will have his personality and life record restored to him, every cell of his body being impressed with the characteristics that make him different from all other persons. And his heart, mind and body will have impressed within them the added qualities, traits and abilities that he developed during his former lifetime.

    Regarding the Creator, the inspired psalmist noted: "Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, and in your book all its parts were down in writing, as regards the days when they were formed and there was not yet one among them." (Psalm 139:16) Accordingly, as soon as the genetic combinations are formed at the time of conception, Jehovah God is capable of perceiving and having a record of a child’s basic traits. So it is wholly logical that he is capable of having an accurate record by which to re-create one who has died.

    We can have confidence in Jehovah’s perfect memory. Why, even imperfect humans, by means of videotape, can preserve and construct visible and audible reproductions of persons. Far greater is God’s ability to keep such records, for he calls all the numberless stars by name!—Psalm 147:4.

    It can be seen, therefore, that resurrection or re-creation is possible because the deceased individual lives in God’s memory. Because of his perfect memory of life patterns and his purpose to resurrect the dead, Jehovah God could count deceased men of faith like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being alive. That is what Jesus Christ called to the attention of unbelieving Sadducees, saying: "That the dead are raised up even Moses disclosed, in the account about the thornbush, when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him."—Luke 20:37, 38.

    There is indeed ample basis for believing in the resurrection or re-creation. True, some may reject the idea. But would you be better off to close your eyes and mind to the evidence and refuse to believe in the resurrection? Would it make it easier for you to lose a dear relative or friend in death? Would you be better prepared to face the grim prospect of your own death?

  • FairMind

    Most likely what is meant by the “former things will not be brought to mind” is that our bad memories will fade. With crime and sickness done away with the memory of such things will eventually grow dim and perhaps someday disappear completely. My biggest pain is the memory of loved ones including children who have died. If death is done away with and these loved one are resurrected then the pain of their deaths will disappear and the memories of their deaths will dim and flicker out (I hope).

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