1975 - serves you right. No extra brownie points sycophants

by Spectrum 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  VM44

  I was going to give examples of Watchtower conventions and special talks before 1975 that emphasized the world was going to end in the 1970s, remember the 1970 special talk, "Who Will Conquer the World in the 1970s?"?, and the Awake! article that said it was a FACT that no young person would grow old in this world pursing a college educated career, and that bible studies were not to be continued past six-months unless the study becomes baptized, but these examples would show only that The Watchtower was continually motivating people that the end was near, time is running out, that people have to be brought in, and so on.

  Your nephew would have been more correct to say the following:

  "They deserved it, they believed what they were told by The Watchtower Organization."

  --VM44
• 

  DannyHaszard

  Right around ca 1970 a Watchtower worldwide directive must be in the Kingdom Ministry archives,ordered all studies limited to 6 months sink or swim bee baptized or bee gone we were told endlessly at meetings conventions,meetings for field service that the end was soooo, close we had to move our studies to baptismal state or move our recruitment resources to those willing to commit.

  This one directive was a mixed bag for many especially pioneers who groaned that a easy source of getting in their hours with old faithful studies who were a source of easytime was now dried up.

  How could anyone interpet this any other way other the 1975 would be the great cut-off?The whole theme of early 1970's was for the armageddon in 75.

  ---------------

  Jehovah's Witnesses are the 'perfect storm' of deception-in a word they are the cult of Innuendo -Danny Haszard Bangor Maine
• 

  A Paduan

  How is this even a point for debate ?
  

  The nephew has built up upon a false assumption, normal for jws, an assumption since substituted as the 'explanation' for ripping someone off - derived from the standard distracting practice of victim blaming - a muddying of the waters, confusing the sight impaired.
  

  Subsequent posts appear to reveal the new judgement light as the explanation used in the mental gymnastics required to maintain the hardened state of denial.
  

  What are his own motives - did someone promise him a 'paradise earth' - or is it through love with no thought to reward or self-gain ?

  ---------------------------------------------------

  The image of jws thinking "suckers" is disturbing to the human soul.

  When someone asks me, "What do you understand evil to be?" - There's no imagining any further.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Perhap`s the JW`s believed 1975 was the end because thats what they were taught by the WBTS..AWAKE April 05,1968...Article:"1975 what doe`s it mean to you"...Watchtower Sept 15 1968 Article:"Why are you looking forward to 1975"..Why did JW`s believe 1975 was a special year?..Because that`s what they were taught...Now no one remembers.Not the people who wrote the articles,not the people who studied the articles,not the people who spent decades preaching 1975 was the end...Now the same people would have you believe it never happened........LIAR`S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.Everyone of them!...OUTLAW
• 

  Kaput

  During an assembly in 1974 the then Dutch branch-overseer tells the audience:

  "The youth has a bright future. Many of us suffered from misery, sickness and death. You don't have to experience that any more. The new order is near. ... There will be a very special Service Meeting (a weekly congregational gathering, RS) in the week of 8 September 1975. Invite everybody. And what will then happen? Well, we don't tell. You think, that if Jehovah makes such an appeal, that there's nothing unusual behind it? Yes? ...Well, sell your house, sell everything you own and say oh boy, how long can I carry on with my private means. That long? Get rid of things! Pioneer! (more or less full-time proselytizing, RS). Plan to shower people with magazines during these last months of this dying system of things! Everybody you meet!" (source: tape-recording, Divine Purpose District Assembly, Utrecht, Holland, Aug. 1974. Also cf. Penton 1985: 327, fn. 9).

  The above is from the following link: http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/1975.html

  Highlight in red is mine.
• 

  atypical

  I think James Woods hit it right on the head. Perfect question for any witness who tackles this subject:

  Are the people who were not influenced by the WTS better off after 1975? If so, what does that tell us today? Would it be wise to base our decisions on hints we receive in the publications, or should we trust our better judgment? Again, who fared better, the ones who hung on the society's words, or the ones who paid little attention to them?

  Hmmmmmmm?????????
• 

  AuldSoul

  Another way of expressing the same thought James Woods and atypical point up is: What fruitage did cooperating with the spirit of the Faithful and Discreet Slave's (pen name for the "Governing Body") direction bear? You will know the false prophets by the fruit they bear.

  Matthew 7:15-20 — “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

  
  The Governing Body

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  Spectrum

  TO ALL,
  
  Thanks all for your contribution this has been an interesting foray into this issue from the point of view of, "did they deserve it?"
  
  I have come to this conclusion based on what I read on this thread and some of my own experience. I believe that all the people that sold up were genuinely duped but there were probably two class of motives. Those that did it thinking in their hearts that they must save as many people as possible and those that thought they'ed be saving themselves.
  
  My nephew only saw one type of person being duped and like I said at the beginning that's the nature of the beast in most JWs.
  
  Auldsoul,
  
  I take your point, very finely analysed word for word and mostly true but at the same time I know a couple of things.
  1. We were introduced into JWism in 1973 and there was no such talk of the end being immiment not because it wasn't mentioned by the Org but it didn't play a role by the looks of it where we were. Nobody we knew was willing to sell up based on whatever info was available.
  2. I've known all sorts of JWs and I'm pretty sure some of them would sell up last minute and preach to save them themselves. That's just the way they think - I'm in this for me. I've met only one JW in my life that was a truly altruistic and he was not respected at all by the congregation. For some reason nobody took him seriously, for me he was somewhat of a role model.
• 

  AuldSoul

  Spectrum,

  I understand what you are saying. Most Witnesses I know are not altruistic either. But I did know more than just one. As you say, none of them seem well respected by the congregation.

  I am curious about a couple of statements in your last post:

  From point #1: Nobody we knew was willing to sell up based on whatever info was available.

  From point #2: I've known all sorts of JWs and I'm pretty sure some of them would sell up last minute and preach to save them themselves. That's just the way they think - I'm in this for me.

  I know some who did. One brother who had very little (some land with a small house and a van) became convinced 1975 was the end by a Convention where he heard F.W. Franz speak. He was the sort of guy whose house was always open, nearly anyone was welcome. He frequently had neighbors over, which caused alarm from some ("worldly" people! [gasp!])

  He has a wife and several children, one of whom I have worked with at Assemblies and Conventions. Anyway, in 1973 (the year after I was born) he sold off what he had, except for the van. He bought a small travel trailer, and the family lived in the van and trailer. The neighbors thought he was nuts, but when they realized how sure he was about 1975 many of them started studying.

  He and his wife started regular pioneering, but they didn't get the minimum. They were putting in more than the Special Pioneers were required to put in. He didn't get any glory from the congregation for his choice. He was asked to relate his experience at a convention and declined to do so. Was that to earn brownie points? Nothing about the man indicates he would be the sort.

  News of his choice spread, however, and by the end of 1974 some others in the area had followed suit. I have no idea what their motives were, I have never asked them.

  But this brother found himself rebuilding his life after 1975 passed without ANY incredibly powerful historical significance (except possibly the official END of the war in Viet Nam or the birth of Angelina Jolie ). Jimmy Carter was elected in 1976 in the midst of an energy crisis and inflation threatening to run away from the Federal Reserve.

  He listened to God's Channel, or so he thought. That was his only fault in his choices, gullibility. If the Governing Body started ramping up expectations of 2024, I wonder how your nephew would react. Would he ignore them (the wise course from an outside perspective) or act as though they ARE God's Channel? I believe only time will tell.

  Is it possible to be self-interested and also be interested in the welfare of others, or should the world be divided between the completely altruistic and everyone else?

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  james_woods

  I guess everybody noticed my "fool me once" was kind of dyslexic..(fool me TWICE shame on ME)...

  I had one other comment; it goes to the last post on the attitude on this circa 1973. It is true that (at least around Okla City, where I was at the time) the authorities (CO, DO, etc) were already back pedaling on this a year or so before the time came. (Do not speculate, blah blah blah) I think this was the height of hypocrisy on their part. It was sort of like they were already covering a bad football bet by putting some money on the other side when they saw the money line move too much. However, 1975 was pounded upon hard and heavy for a good while as soon as the Bablyon the Great has Fallen came out. It was mostly done in assembly talks so that the printed evidence could be guarded just in case of a mess up. All the other posts here are giving very typical examples.

  Then, after the date came that stupid stuff about "we don't know how long it took Adam to figure out sex" (if he was that dumb and still perfect it must have also taken a good creative day or two to name the animals...)