The Root of All Evil? UK Channel4 Mon 9th Jan 8pm

by ignored_one 42 Replies latest social entertainment

  • City Fan
    City Fan

    It was the guy from Lourdes who came up with the figure of 66 authenticated cured cases. Dawkins came up with one of my favourite arguments that we have yet to see anyone with for example an amputated leg come back from a faith healer with the limb grown back!

    I also liked the way he told the Baptist minister that he had no idea about evolutionary science.

    I found most of the programme to be fairly simplistic though. Next week he's going to discuss how 'vidictive' the god of the bible really is.

  • Gill
    Gill

    We, in our home, all watched it and thought it was excellent.

    I thought the part showing the Baptist Minister giving a sermon on 'Obedience' was spectacularly cringe worthy and hope some JWs that we know were watching it and also cringing in their seats.

    The intolerance of religious leaders certainly came over well. The baptist minister was an arrogant swine and extremely or tried to be extremely intimidating to the presenter but only came over as a bigotted ass.

    As for the Jewish convert to Islam. What a bigotted arrogant so and so he was! Telling the presented that in the West they should 'keep your women under control and not allow them to go round dressed as whores!' He also expressed the belief that all the world will eventually be converted to Islam! Now where have I heard the 'all the world will be....' line before.

    Next weeks programme should be very interesting as he's looking at what an unpleasant person God is painted as in the Bible.

    Could be that he's talking about the scizophrenic war God of the OT.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    doogie:

    so be it. (not all atheists worship dawkins, ya know. )

    All true atheists do!

    Qcmbr:

    1/ Several broad brush statements (from the title of the documentary to things like 100million something Americans believe that the world is less than 10000 years old or something like that - extrapolated from Southern Baptists.)

    His figures are consistent with several polls I've seen on the subject. See http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm

    2/ The failure to point out that aethiesm can be dangerous - at one point I really thought he was glorifying a supposedly 'underground' movement of 'free thinkers' in the bible belt. Extremism on any level is dangerous and he kinda embraced anyone not ensnared by religion as somehow on his side. Maybe just my view.

    I'm not sure how atheism in itself can be dangerous. Dawkins consistently pointed out that belief based on something other than evidence is what's dangerous. This could also apply to particular atheistic philosophies, although not atheism itself which is merely a lack of belief.

    3/ Some silly statements - couldn't see how the world could continue with such religious division and conflict as though religion and conflict was new to humanity and the greatest threat.

    It's not new, but religious fanatics now have the wherewithal to obtain nuclear weapons - one man who believes he is in direct communion with God is in control of the world's largest arsenal.

    4/ He quite quickly lost his patience in the face of religious dogmatism. Seemed like they had to keep cutting it short as he clearly got upset.

    I can relate to that. It's very difficult not to get frustrated when arguing with people who have proudly abandoned reason. I thought he did an excellent job of controlling himself in the face of such rabid and irrational dogmatism.

    5/ Cr*p analogies with 'cosmic teapot' and 'mount improbable' (someone else can explain it - I though it was pretty weak.)

    Neither analogy was explained particularly well. I think that was due to the format of the programme rather than faults in the analogies themselves. The "cosmic teapot" is simply intended to show the absurdity of believing something simply because it cannot be disproven. I thought it was overdone a little.

    "Mount Improbable" is Dawkins' own analogy. Opponents of evolution often claim that evolution would have to make huge impossible leaps to produce what we see today. Dawkins' argument is that huge leaps would not be necessary. Populations could improve fitness by a series of small steps, eventually reaching a peak of maximum fitness. The subject is covered in detail, with numerous examples, in his book Climbing Mount Improbable.

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    I watched the programme and found it interesting, too!

    The Baptist minister seemed pretty reasonable at first, bearing in mind where he was coming from, but then caused problems by evicting Dawkins and the televison crew from off the parking lot. He certainly didn't do himself any favours by reacting in such a manner.

    The Jewish convert to Islam was the scariest, though. He was your typical Muslim fundamentalist!

    It seemed to me that the religious equate atheism with a lack of morals, that only if one believes in God - and their God at that - can one really be saved or live on a safe earth. History, however, teaches the contrary!

    As I sit here writing this I can't actually say the programme was riveting and left me more knowledgeable. Rather, I think it ran true to form. What I'm glad about is that the programme actually got aired. Freedoms like that are priceless!

    Ian

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I'm afraid I was out and it had finished by the time I returned home.

    From the comments here it sounds as if those interviewed were from the extreme ends of the spectrum, and that the "religious" were painted with broad brush strokes. It sounds more like journalistic license that fair reporting. Nonetheless I'll attempt to see the next episode.

    As for "mount improbable", it's not that long since they thought it was impossible for a man to run a mile in less than four minutes - now folks do it regularly...

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Did any JW leaders appear on this or any other similar program? One thing I noticed about them is their reticence to appear publicly and discuss their beliefs with others. They do this on a one to one or one to few basis but never in the mass media.

    That says a lot about those that claim to hold the absolute truth. Would the apostles shy away from this if they lived today?

  • scotsman
    scotsman

    I've been to a couple of Dawkins debates and as usual, although I agree with him, his manner is off puting. He somehow managed to look continually huffy in last nights programme. The extremists he met hung themselves with their own words without requiring his ascerbic remarks.

    The programme is a good idea, but Dawkins is not the best man to deliver it. He's not the only atheist out there.

  • ignored_one
    ignored_one
    The programme is a good idea, but Dawkins is not the best man to deliver it. He's not the only atheist out there.

    My vote goes to Abaddon or FunkyDerek.

  • shark attack
    shark attack

    THIS IS BROTHER GONG FROM THE CHURCH OF THE FLYING TEA POT . I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT WE HAVE NO LINKS WITH THE CULT CALLING ITSELF THE COSMIC TEAPOTS! P.S. THERE ALL NUTTERS!

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    LittleToe:

    From the comments here it sounds as if those interviewed were from the extreme ends of the spectrum, and that the "religious" were painted with broad brush strokes.

    That's largely true. Dawkins did begin with more mainstream believers, and pointed out that belief in something like the Assumption is ridiculous but largely harmless. He went on to show how it is the same kind of blind belief that causes people to believe in the healing power of Lourdes (slightly more harmful) or that those who slaughter infidels go to a special martyrs' heaven (extremely harmful). He focused on the more harmful end of the spectrum.

    It sounds more like journalistic license that fair reporting.

    It was an editorial piece, not the news. Dawkins considers religious people to be delusional (as do I) and he said so. He didn't lie or misrepresent the evidence, but he did concentrate on the examples that most obviously supported his argument.

    Nonetheless I'll attempt to see the next episode.

    Set your video now. 8:00pm, Channel 4, Monday 16th January.

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