# 144000....DO THE NUMBERS ADD UP?????

by chuckyy 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• ##### johnathanseagull

Here are the math

144,000 minus 8000 (the so called remnant living today) = 136,000

136,000 divided by 1900 (centuries) = 71.5

soooooo on average according to the Blotchtower only 71.5 "true christians" made it into Jahooobah's good books every year

Unreal huh?

here endeth the lesson

• ##### ed9991

Somebody thinks the number is actually 1,440,000 based on:

Isaiah 6:13 "And there will still be in it a tenth and it must again become something for burning down, like a big tree and like a massive tree in which, when there is a cutting down of them, there is a stump; a holy seed will be teh stump of it."

The one-tenth stump is the holy stump of natural Jews. The entire tree is thus ten times the size of the stump so the total number to be debated of combined Jews and gentiles is actually one million four hundred and fourty-four thousand (1,440,000).

But it seems that everyone that is "invited" doesn't truly fulfill the requirements. When Christ arrives, for instance many invited beg off and don't come resulting in many unfilled seats in the kingdom that are then filled with easterners and westerners, those not even Christians. So everyone has a chance, an "invite" to get into the kingdom, but many, many fail for one reason or another, so many that the 1,440,000 is not completed by Jews and Christians and so the full number is completed by whomever God chooses. Thus a huge failure rate should be factored in for all those considered as part of the 144,000. "Many are invited, but few chosen."

Even so, it would appear there is truly no problems with the numbers in this case, especially when the correct numbers are understood. 1,440,000 still isn't that large of a number comparatively, but admittedly easier to deal with than just 144,000.

Ed

• ##### Shazard

PMJ yea, it is pretty obvious their heart... if they are ready to go to death because of Christ, they are very faithfull christians... and this number is FAR over 144000. BTW better go to scripture and read WHERE are the 144000 placed when the seal is put on them. And find out WHY the seal is put on them!

• ##### Shazard

PMJ, read 1 Peter 1:10-11. And you will see that Christ's Spirit was spirit of Prophets also Rev 19:10 See those who lived befor Christ came in flesh still had faith in him, still believed and this faith is the one which saves them too and they are saved because of their faith in Christ before as we are saved after. Christs sacrifice covers whole people in whole world. But we know you do not believe Bible words if their contradicts WT teaching!

• ##### greendawn

Going back to the Acts 21:20 verse it is a fact that the JWs translated myriads as thousands and this is to be found in "The kingdom interlinear translation of the Greek scriptures" produced in 1969. Apparently they later changed it to "many thousands" but I didn't have any NWT bibles to compare.

The WTS try to minimise the number of martyr or non martyr faithful Christians with the ridiculous and sacreligious, infuriating claim that all Christians went apostate as soon as the Apostle John died (so after 100 AD all those that were atrociously tortured and/or killed for Christ do not count, for being apostates), yet it is still impossible to reconcile Rutherford's super silly ideas about the 144000 with history. The wheat was to grow with the weeds right through to the end, there always have been/will be genuine Christians to the end.

• ##### Earnest
Going back to the Acts 21:20 verse it is a fact that the JWs translated myriads as thousands and this is to be found in "The kingdom interlinear translation of the Greek scriptures" produced in 1969. Apparently they later changed it to "many thousands" but I didn't have any NWT bibles to compare.

The New Testament was first translated by the WTS in 1950 and at that time they translated muriades as "many thousands". There was also a footnote to Acts 21:20 which said "Literally, 'myriads; ten thousands' ". While I find their insistence on a literal understanding of 144,000 in a book full of symbols quite peculiar, I cannot find evidence their translation of Acts 21:20 was distorted at any time.

willyloman:

I remember that QFR (Watchtower 1/15 1952, p.62) troubling me the first time I read it. If they had said the numbers were exaggerated I would have found that much easier to accept. But to assume so many of the martyrs were nominal Christians is clearly expedient.

Many of those persons might have been caught in the wave of persecution, but may never have actually preached the truth or followed in Jesus’ footsteps, being only professed Christians.

Earnest

• ##### Narkissos

Earnest,

Nice to "see" you!

Technically the NWT doesn't translate muriades by "many thousands" but posai muriades

by "how many thousands" => they do translate muriades by "thousands". Btw the footnote in the current NWT on the word "thousands" is correct:

This is of course admissible on stylistic grounds, although it hardly suits the NWT claims to literalism which usually justifies poor English style...

• ##### Honesty
Here's the kick in the keester as I see it! The wages of sin is death right? So no matter what kind of POS you were in life as soon as you die your set, you get the same reward as the same person who spent their life selling watchtowers right!?

THATS why the WBTS keeps saying it's right around the corner! If people realized that "hey wait just a @\$%\$ second, I AM going to die in this system" then they fall right then and there! mkr32208

The evil slaves on the WT Governing Body don't even want to go there with this scripture either: Heb 9:27-28 And just as it is appointed for people to die onceand after this, judgmentso also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.

• ##### wombat

Like, stop spelling and talking as an illiterate person would do and being fluent and articulate the next post.

It's silly Defd and his other alias just wasting our time. He just loves attention.

I've told him before (or was it Erich?) playing with your wee-wee is much more fun. Go away and stop counting this as time spent in the field.

The Jan 15 Watchtower forbids you from visiting this site under the threat of disfellowshipping.

• ##### Earnest

Hi Narkissos, good to see you too.

Technically the NWT doesn't translate muriades by "many thousands" but posai muriades by "how many thousands" => they do translate muriades by "thousands".

Well, yes...as AA might say...I was wearing my "NWT is right" glasses. However, in Luke 12:1 it is translated as "many thousands". It would seem that a bit of interpretation has been included in the translation as the occurrences of muriades in Hebrews, Jude and Revelation are all rendered as "myriads".

Earnest