the reality that life is suffering and sometimes it's just not fair. I know, I sound like a 5 year old here. And perhaps emotionally I am to some degree, having bought into the jw "new system" at the age of 5.
Growing up thinking there's a purpose for suffering and at the end of it, all will be brought to justice, is a comforting illusion. Even since abandoning the jw mentality, I had taken up the karma view. But in the end, it still feels like the same sort of mental masturbation; the view that there is some internal balance to the universe.
So, if the reality is that there is no ultimate justice and that humans may never be held accountable for their actions, how do you deal with that on a day to day basis? When you're getting screwed over by people you love and trust or being let down by the "justice system" how do you keep it all in perspective?
As a jw I could write it all off as "Vengeance is mine says Jehovah. I shall repay." But even that caused cognitive dissonance as it didn't seem like anything really gets repaid since death, according to the jw view, put us all back on a level playing field.
So, in the day to day of it, how do you deal with this? What comforts you when you and others are suffering, when justice is elusive and life just doesn't seem fair?
tall penguin
As the illusion fades, how do you deal with...
by tall penguin 13 Replies latest jw friends
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tall penguin
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freedomlover
good question TP -
you and I are on the same level as far as this one goes. at first it was exhilarating and exciting to shed such false ideas that the JW's fed you, but then you are forced to face some tough realities. the problem for me seems compounded when my children pose these questions to me and I don't seem to have an answer. I do still think there is some truth to karma or what goes around comes around. I think we don't see it play out all the time, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. on the other hand, I do agree there are a lot of shitty people who just like to shit on other people and nothing ever seems to happen to them. I guess I just have been dealing with it by following my gut. I do believe in intuition and that we can learn to listen to it in varying degrees. trust your gut about people, and things. try to stay away from the hurtful ones and things.
not too much to do but turn the cold, hard, truth into something beautiful like a real melancholy song or poem, do some art, enjoy the darkness sometimes. it makes me feel more alive that way. but yeah, the shitty stuff does suck sometimes. no way around it at times.............
not too helpful am I???
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wanderlustguy
You guys both need to read "The Road Less Traveled". I'm just about halfway through it but it has helped some. In the start of it there is the statement that life is one problem right after another. Think about that, everything is a problem. Are you hungry? That's a problem, you fix it by eating. Are you sleepy? Fix that by sleeping. Are you horney? Heh - my attempt at humor.
In any case, once you break it down to that type of basic thought, everything is a problem to be solved. If you are not happy, you need to figure out what it causing it. If it is the presence of something, remove it, if it is the absence of something go get it. Granted everything is not that simple, but the point is, you are sufficient in and of yourself, the answers to all of your problems do NOT lie with God or Jesus or me or George W Bush, they are all within you. Just as Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within you...once you figure out what that means, it empowers you to change your life and your perception of it.
You are enough, and it is ok to hurt. Just remember we are accountable to ourselves, and people who do wrong have to face themselves every day. Even if it seems they "get away with it", if you really look at them and are honest about what you see, you know it is not true.
Self respect is the best kind.
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AlmostAtheist
On its face, the idea that there's no great justice keeper might seem unsettling.
But on the other hand, you mentioned in another thread how you always felt torn trying to decide if situations were gifts from god or traps of satan. You're moving beyond that, and now realizing there's NO gifts, NO traps. It's a liberating thing to know that when you step in a mud puddle on your way to a job interview, it was just your own carelessness, or simple random chance, and not some super-scheme on the part of unknowable entities working for your good or ill.
But it does leave you feeling like you need to get all you can while the getting's good. And defend yourself against those around you that feel the same way.
Thankfully, that also passes and you come to understand that the "morals" of being good, being generous, being kind, are just logical and reasonable things to do -- and most people do them naturally anyway. So you DON'T need to defend yourself, and you don't need to be selfish. (Not that you ever were or thought about it) Just be the best person you know how to be, expect those around you to do the same, and surprise surprise, it all works out nicely.
It's fun to watch your mind working, TP! Thanks for sharing, and be assured your posts are helping others every bit as much as they are helping you.
Dave
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anewme
Tall, very good subject!
Beliefs:
There is so much confusion and argument in the area of religion.
I have taken the position of silent observer again. I take also the view that we may be wrong about God and who he is, or that we may be underestimating Him I should say. He may be way more than we previously thought.
With this in mind I am open to all new insight about God and the world. I welcome all lovely thoughts and discussion. I find fascinating reviewing all the words of Jesus Christ and trying hard to distill his thoughts and draw out new depths of understanding.
I am working daily on my respect for all that is beautiful and awesome.
I am sure I will learn more about God and the truth ultimately through these meditations.
Conduct:
If you look at all religions and examine the collective conscience of mankind there are definitely common patterns of behavior that are deemed godly and ungodly. I am endeavoring to live a godly life now one that my own God given conscience approves.
Sorrow and Injustice:
After all available institutions have been sought out i.e. medical, legal, community, one can only put oneself in the huge hands of the Almighty at times of death, sorrow, pain and suffering and pray to our Creator for help and safety and ultimately remembrance.
What else can man do?
Matthew 22:37
Micah 6:8 -
greendawn
I never had this qustion to deal with because I believe firmly that ultimately everything will be paid for, barring repentance, and of course this is not an idea exclusive to the JWs, most Christian religions believe that there will be a day of judgement where all injustice will be punished.
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telltruth
Tall Penguin......... There exists in all of us, on some basic level; questions that need answers. The answers exist and they are by no means concrete. There are many answers to every question posed. The answers that satisfy, do so because they resonate with the one posing the question. Every day we all add to our unique sum total of experience, and in turn pose new questions as some are satisfied and others shed their importance. As you well know, I was never under the direction of the WTS so I cannot really comment on this particular illusion. But illusions are quite simply answers that haven't been questioned and they continue for all in absence of questions. The penguin I know and RESPECT, from where I stand; will recieve every answer you need.....because you ask the most wonderful questions.......telltruth
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Sheepish
I can't swallow that the world is a completely random place. Too much evidence to the contrary for me. As a Christian I do have certain promises. I worship a just God. I know that "all things work to good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose" and I find that looking back, it's true for me.
I don't think it "natural" at all for people to be good and moral. As you know from experience, it takes effort and choice. Most people's "love" flys right out the window when it's inconvenient or confronted. So I choose to sow as much love & kindness as I can, even in the face of injustice and unkindness, leaving God to "sort them out". It takes a lot of pressure off. You are only responsible for how you behave. I believe you are only ultimately answerable to God.
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Satanus
Human suffering is a natural outgrowth and continuation of animal suffering, since we have evolved from them. But, we have more mind, as a species. For some reason or other, we tend to have empathy. That empathy moves us to attempt to reduce suffering.
I am along w wanderlustguy and the almost atheist guy. There does seem to be a bit of instant karma. Afterlife karma is a nice thought, but i think it's basically another guilt/fear control tool. From my reading and experimentation, i think that there is probably reincarnation. It seems to me that the way it works is that we keep coming back until we get right things that are importint us. That is sort of like school; you keep repeating the same grade until you get good enough to pass to the next. If someone screws up really bad and causes a lot of suffering, he/she may not necesarily suffer a lot, in turn. In my view, everyone keeps going around until they graduate, so to speak. That's somewhat of a consolation, if it's true.
S
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tall penguin
Wow, thanks for all of the feedback. I appreciate the support.
freedomlover, it sounds like we're on this journey at a similar pace. I look forward to continuing to chat with you about this.
wanderlustguy, I actually read "The Road Less Traveled" shortly after leaving the jw's. I loved it. I've read a lot of self-help over the years. I find it useful.
You said "You are enough, and it is ok to hurt." Thank you for this reminder as I still struggle with the question of "am I enough?"
Dave, I really appreciate your heartfelt comments. Whenever you reply to one of my threads I can feel your sincerity. Were you ever an elder? I can see you as having been one of the good ones whose heart would've been torn up by the position.
And thank you for this: "It's fun to watch your mind working, TP! Thanks for sharing, and be assured your posts are helping others every bit as much as they are helping you." It's nice to know we all make a difference in some way.
anewme, you said "I have taken the position of silent observer again. I take also the view that we may be wrong about God and who he is, or that we may be underestimating Him I should say. He may be way more than we previously thought."
I am still open to this possibility as I am doing my best to remain open to all possibilities. Taking the "silent observer" position is a wise course imho.
greendawn, you said "I believe firmly that ultimately everything will be paid for" Somewhere deep down in my heart I believe this too. Part of me still wants to believe in some basic order to the universe, even in the face of conflicting experience. I'll do my best to stay open to this idea.
telltruth, you said "The answers that satisfy, do so because they resonate with the one posing the question."
Yes!!! Your statement resonates with me! :) It's true that as we evolve individually so do the questions we ask and in turn, the answers we receive. I'm learning to stay with the process and trust that all will be made clearer in time.
"The penguin I know and RESPECT, from where I stand; will recieve every answer you need.....because you ask the most wonderful questions." Thanks tell for the respect. It means a lot to me.
Sheepish you said, "I can't swallow that the world is a completely random place. Too much evidence to the contrary for me."
Yes, I do want to believe there is some basic order to things. And a lot of my experience with energy work and with life in general seems to support this belief. I guess what I was feeling when I wrote this thread yesterday was a sense of grief and anger around the suffering I see. I need to come to a place of acceptance that this is how it is right now and that looking forward to anything or anyone in the future to make it right is not helping me in the now.
Satanus, you said, "From my reading and experimentation, i think that there is probably reincarnation. It seems to me that the way it works is that we keep coming back until we get right things that are importint us."
It's funny because I saw an energy healer a few months ago. A very quiet and wise man. He worked with me for about five minutes and then said, "You're a very old soul. You've been around a while. You've entered a life with some very distinct and deep challenges because you needed them to propel you into your next phase of growth."
Not sure I am totally buying this but it does resonate. Basically, he was in line with your student analogy. I'm here to learn the next round of lessons on my way to graduation. This time around I've gotten pretty hard-knocked because it's necessary for my growth. I can handle that. Most days anyhow.
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I feel more grounded today. I'm looking out the window and watching the snow fall and enjoying the moment for what it is. I'm looking forward to recreating my perception of the world, realizing now that this is an ongoing evolution that doesn't end. Thanks to all for your ongoing support. I can feel your presence in my heart as I move through my day. Namaste to you all.
tall penguin