Hi. I am newbie here and I am not ex-JW. Christ managed to protect me, but my brother fell into this cult. Now coz of this I am confessional Lutheran. BUT... can YOU help me with some bible passages, theological questions which are just stumper for JW as they are not trained to answer them. I know all the standart (and not only) passages, but wanted to get from ex-JW what are the themes JW just unable to answer and not trained to speak about!
Bible verses or theological questions which "breaks" JW
Welcome! Sorry about your brother.
Theological and stumper logic questions tend to make Witnesses better Witnesses. Is this your goal? You could show a believing Jehovah's Witness a notarized picture of the whole Governing Body screwing a Vegas whore on a blackjack table and they will shun you and stay a Witness.
How about first you allow a challenge to your own cherished religious beliefs? A challenge similar to that challenge you'd like to arrange for your brother and see how your religion fares . . . and to see how you like it. Maybe then you will understand why insults and disrespect will not work for a vast majority.
Would you like to know what will work?
Welcome Shazard. Glad to see you're interested in helping your brother. It takes time and patience.
There is no magic solution.
Gary, it's nice to see you in such a good mood
Gary's right, showing them they're wrong unfortunately doesn't usually work. JW's are taught that they have "the truth", so anything else is logically "false". If they can't personally explain why whatever you show them is wrong, they will just assume that it is their personal ignorance, not a flaw in their views.
And as a trump card, they also believe that "the truth" can change. Soemtimes the Watchtower changes its doctrinal position, even radically. When it does, it claims that there is "new light" being shown on their understanding. It's hard to be outside of it looking in and imagine how they ever bought it, but having been on the inside I can tell you; I bought it.
Most ex-JW's I've talked with said that they only started seeing the falsity of the Watchtower when they were personally ready to see it. Even when I was exposed to "apostate materials" as a JW, it didn't reach me. But when I personally "woke up" one day, that's when I was able to start accepting it.
I wish you all the best with your family. Toward that end, just be loving and familial toward your brother. This will keep the door open so that if one day he wants to talk to you about his beliefs, he'll feel comfortable doing it.
"Christ managed to protect me, but my brother fell into this cult."
Why did Christ not protect your brother?
If they are not trained to answer them then they just ask someone that is.
I agree with the above posters, thee is no "silver bullet".
But I've always been kind of partal to this line of reasoning...
Regarding the "Faithful & Discreet Slave" doctrine, you ask, "So, Jehovah has always had an organization here on earth right? There has always been a 'Faithful & Discreet slave Class here on the earth since Jesus' death in 33CE?"
To which a faithful JW should answer "Yes", as this is the offficial teaching.
To which you reply, "So, if I were living in the year 1492, and I wanted to be pleasing to God, to which organization should I have belonged? Or int he year 850? Or the year 1700?"
Or, an alterntive would be, "So, there was a Faithful & Discreet Slave Class in 1870, right? Why didn't CT Russell stick to that organization, rather than founding the Watchtower Society as a new entity?"
I, for one, would love to hear what Gary Buss has to say about what will work. Gary, with 30 family members in, I could use every bit of wisdom you have.
"Theological and stumper logic questions tend to make Witnesses better Witnesses. Is this your goal? You could show a believing Jehovah's Witness a notarized picture of the whole Governing Body screwing a Vegas whore on a blackjack table and they will shun you and stay a Witness."
Please read what Gary said and allow the context to sink in, for he is so correct, it is this type of mindset that keeps a jw in , they must mentally adjust to accept anything the wt does, - it is often referred to as "Mental Gymnastics" by many folks online
Now this comment is a real kicker:
"Most ex-JW's I've talked with said that they only started seeing the falsity of the Watchtower when
they were personally ready to see it."
the above sums up the exact time a jw will leave the org and former jw and nonjw need to understand this concept, i have seen former jw talk till they are black and blue and the jw doesn't flitch-
truth- facts, proof documentation have very little to do with a person in a high control group, when you are dealing with a person who believes that you have no Spritual understanding`and can offer them no insight on the bible that is different from the wt, you are talking about a closed mind, To be one of jw means:
"that you will never agree with a biblical explanation from a member of Satan religious system aka christemdom that is opposite of what the wt teaches"
if you keep the above in mind then it helps one to understand why there are no stumpers with jw
A B C A. The central core JW doctrine is Jesus second coming in 1914, is a LIE! B. Every devout JW will grow old and die just like me. C. Apostate opposer's like myself will not die at Armageddon
My stumper is asking this question, "WTF is wrong with you????"