What if a "leader" defended people rather than judging and punishing them?

by DavidChristopher 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • SPAZnik

    i guess what i'm trying to say is
    that while i love the word defend,
    or Defender, it sounds so valiant.
    yet, in order to defend someone,
    is some form of judgement likely involved?
    judging them worthy of defending?
    judging those you defend against?

    hm, simplify you said. :)

    okay, it seems to be not an EITHER judge, OR defend,
    but perhaps BOTH judgement and defending
    would be part of a good leaders arsenal
    and better yet knowing when and how to use each.
    idealistically speaking of course. :)

  • DavidChristopher

    Yes, I would say that for a human to be able to discern that persons intentions and heart, would be an extremely hard task. For example, the 5th admendment is a major problem in our current system of "justice". If we don't question the person, as to why they did what they did. How can we show them the error of their ways? How can you prevent others from doing the same thing? Could that person ever repent or "rehabilitate" if they really felt they did nothing wrong? Could you give me 20 years for stealing food for my starving family(bad example) am I going to regret what I did? Am I going to hate and resent the one who gave my the time? I think we all have to justify our actions to our selves, and that, is where the answer lies. Destroy that "justification". That goes up pretty high too. Crime for example, Could I fight high gas prices by going after gas station clerks? It seems pointless to try to find answers to problems by fighting and chasing the "results" rather than the "cause". Although, fighting the cause, can be a long and drawn out process you can make alot of money at, and you will never have to worry about being out of work. For example, if you bring me your car for a misfire, and I pull the plug and see it is really wet with gas. I replace the plug, and it runs smooth again, I call you and tell you to come and get it. 2 weeks later you are back for another misfire, I charge you another $70 and replace the plug again. It becomes a routine and I make $70 every two weeks from you. What happens when you go somewhere else one day, and this guy goes deeper into it and finds you have an injector stuck open fouling that plug, and fixes it? Think I am going to go see him and thank him for fixing your car? Religon's also have this luxury, the worst things get out here, the more people pack into them, the more powerful they become. Think they are really are really searching for truth, and eagerly awaiting a savior to come and take over? In fact, they have the least faith in God of all, and I would say they are betting their lives He does not really exist and is not coming to take over. Well, I am betting mine He does, and is. I see these things by observing their actions, putting aside their appearances and pretty words. Could they prove to you I am wrong?

  • SPAZnik

    Interesting thoughts DavidChristopher.

    To comment on those and randomly add a few more cents from my perspect...

    Your comments about having people justify their actions in order to be able to 'show them where they went wrong' are interesting to me. I think I can understand your logic and yet my mind goes somewhere else with it as well. I can't help thinking that each individual we stick away in a jail is a societal scapegoat to at least some extent,... a reflection of how we are failing in our respective societies, as much if not more so than how those people failed as individuals, if only because as a society we have more power than an individual. I'm not saying leave it as a free for all, I guess I just find it to be jokelike in it's predictable flaws that we rarely seem to address or take accountability for failing to address.

    Personally, I don't think we need to lift the earth off its axis and blow the dust out from underneath, while polishing Atlas's head in order to show a person where they "went wrong" in our estimation. Perhaps we could start by honestly acknowledging the power of ALL the contributing factors that landed an individual in the hot seat, including societal and governmental flaws/crimes. First getting some honest perspective of the bigger picture, THEN pointing at the individual "wrongdoer" with compassion. I think it would be cool to get people involved in the making amends aspect of their crimes. However, such Herculean efforts might be needed in order to help restore some respect for the difference between a beggar and a thief.

    When we really ARE brave enough to go digging for the real answers about why stuff happened, we find out that the "truth" is it's never just ONE clearcut thing. So many contributing factors and each contributing person or factor has umpteen reasons/justifications/contributing factors to why they did what they did. (much like your car repair example only i'm seeing it conversely...instead of one root cause for repeatedly occurring symptoms, i'm seeing it more from one symptom or repeated grouping of symptoms, with a multitude of contributing factors...how far back do we go? how much accountability are we really willing and able to extract?)

    I guess we somehow justify drawing lines that don't allow us to go back that far. In the case of the 5th amendement in the US, I'm not educated on it really, but at first glance, it just seems like the US's way of acknowleging the naturalism thing and offering people an out from becoming that scapegoat (& not without cost). I read somewhere that the US founders were deists (not unlike yourself, that subscribed to naturalism (not unlike myself). I guess it can be an infuriating catch22, tho I harbour the belief that the truest and realest accountability for people that exercise that right, is having to live with a truth all themselves and take it to their grave (and if you believe in a God, which seems to be an entirely different conversation, I guess they'd also have to be accountable there).

    Exercising a right or responsibility to silence does not come without price. I mean, have you ever tried it?

    Amen to your comments about their being "no money in the cure" as it were. People/societies are sick that way me thinks on so many fronts. I see individuals being so sincere and well meaning but definitely limited by the crowd every bit as much as they can be defended by it.

    Round an' round,

    SPAZZY :)

    ps - wondering what inspired your initial comments/thoughts on leadership, defending vs judging? anything specific?

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