Z, are you there? (page 2)

Narkissos

The text Hellrider's correspondent posted has ha-mashiach Yeshua` (the "anointed/Christ" Jesus) in 1:1, contrary to Baal Shem Tov's.

It is probably one of the many 19th / 20th Hebrew versions (e.g. Delitzsch's).

Hm, I read thru that short article about the hebrew "Matthew" (from what I understand, it is so different from the greek versions, that it wouldn`t fit into the Bible very well), and I`m just wondering: Do you think this is the text the early church fathers are referring to, when they mentioned the "hebrew Matthew"? I was sure they referred to other texts, such as gospel of the hebrews, or some other document. I didn`t know that they were actually referring to a "Matthew". Also, the article doesn`t say when they believe this gospel was written..

z

Hellrider I don’t know Nark or Leo may be able to answer you better

Narkissos

It is certainly not the "original" of Matthew (which is a Greek text depending on the thoroughly Greek Mark) but it might be a pretty early (late Antiquity or early Middle-Ages) Hebrew translation reflecting an ancient Judeo-Christian tradition (as the occasional agreement with the Pseudo-Clementines suggests).

Hellrider

Narkissos, ok,thanks.

Leolaia

Hm, I read thru that short article about the hebrew "Matthew" (from what I understand, it is so different from the greek versions, that it wouldn`t fit into the Bible very well), and I`m just wondering: Do you think this is the text the early church fathers are referring to, when they mentioned the "hebrew Matthew"? I was sure they referred to other texts, such as gospel of the hebrews, or some other document. I didn`t know that they were actually referring to a "Matthew".

The "Hebrew gospel" mentioned by the early church fathers is clearly one of the Jewish-Christian gospels (such as the Gospel of the Hebrews, the Gospel of the Nazoreans, the Gospel of the Ebionites), as their quotations from the "Hebrew gospel" demonstrate. These gospels are generally believed to to be second-century harmonizations of Matthew and Luke, tho James Edwards believes that the Gospel of the Ebionites known to Epiphanius in particular is a version of an Aramaic or Hebrew gospel used by the author of Luke as a special source (on the basis of parallels to material unique to Luke in the Gospel of the Ebionites).

Hellrider

Leolaia, thanks. That`s what I thought. They used language like "the hebrews have their own gospel", etc. So that makes sense.

Leolaia

Just bear in mind that all of these Jewish-Christian gospels, as we now know them, are secondary to the canonical Greek gospels. They do not constitute evidence of an original form of the Greek gospels, tho there may be evidence that one of these Jewish-Christian gospels might be a descendent of one of the sources of one of the canonical gospels.

Z, are you there?

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