by confused_101 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Hi Confused101,
Here's a little thought experiment you might like to try:
What would the world be like if there was no God? What if there was no "spirit realm" inhabited by any sort of intelligent creatures? How would THIS world, the one we live in every day, be any different?
I'll be interested in your thoughts on this.
Best wishes and Merry Xmas!
Thank you yet again Kate. You are a dear for helping me with this and I appreciate it.
we "receive" what we receive.
What exactly is untiled in this "receiving"? What are the conditions? What is it that I, myself, must do to receive? Not the car, but the gift you say Jesus has for me? And, what if I find it impossible to do what is needed? What happens to me then? Is there a price to pay?
j
JT, what a treat it is to view the photos you post - absolutely incredible stuff to look at. I marvel at the way you can select the perfect piece to illustrate your points.
Gee, 500 posts - a milestone for me.
James,
Excuse me for butting in. >
>What exactly is untilled in this "receiving"? What are the conditions? What is it that I, myself, must do to receive? Not the car, but the gift you say Jesus has for me? And, what if I find it impossible to do what is needed? What happens to me then? Is there a price to pay?
When God calls you to faith you simply accept or receive that faith (the gift). "For we are saved by grace through faith and that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works lest anyone boast." Eph. 2:8, 9
When you realize that you are a sinner, by God's definition: "For all have sinned and fall short of God's glory." Rom. 3:23
When you realize that your sin separates you from God (What you must do is repent): "For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom. 6.23, then you realizes that by receiving Jesus in faith you are no longer separated from God.
And you see that "God showed His love for us in that even yet while we were sinners, Christ died for us." Rom. 5.8 (Jesus paid the price!)
"For if you believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and confess with your mouth, Jesus is lord then you will be saved." Rom. 10.9 (Simple belief that what God says is true.)
"Behold I stand at the door and knock and if anyone lets me in I will come in and dine with him." Rev. 3.20
It’s that easy for one who is truly seeking God. If you are not, then you will find it impossible to believe and you probably know that you will remain eternally separated from God (John 3.18-19). You will pay the price that Jesus has paid for those who believe, since you will have refused the grace offered to you.
Christianity stands in stark opposition to the notion of relativism. Relativism, the belief that 'all faiths lead to God' itself suffers from a self-inflicted argument. Many faiths claim to be the way, but only one can be. James, you don't need involved explanations or long winded theological argumentation to come to faith. In the final analysis it is not reasoning but believing that brings one faith.
"Seek not to understand that you believe but believe that you may understand." St. Augustine said that and it holds as a timeless truth. God bless you and yours.
Rex
j
What exactly is untiled in this "receiving"? What are the conditions? What is it that I, myself, must do to receive? Not the car, but the gift you say Jesus has for me? And, what if I find it impossible to do what is needed? What happens to me then? Is there a price to pay?
I have the feeling you already know all these answers.
Rex, thank you for your well thought out reply.
Many times in my life, good hearted people -- like Kate and yourself -- have come to me with a story of Jesus‘ "free" and "unconditional" love. Is this gift of salvation, genuinely free and unconditional? Can we find something to compare it with and see?
This word "faith" that the "free" gift is concretely contingent upon sounds so innocent and sweet; when actually what this faith demands of us is to hand over our entire life in idolization and exaltation to a deity that he may do with us as he wills. I seriously doubt there is an "un-condition" anywhere more grossly conditional and restrictive.
It’s understandable why a loving parent like Kate may find it difficult -- if not impossible -- to see the actual conditions within Jesus‘ "gift". For as she so honestly, wisely and compassionately says: "If I can love my children unconditionally how much more is God capable of unconditional love?" This is a beautifully specific and keen observation, however, Kate is faced with a frightening paradox in that for her to honestly accept and admit that her mere human love is far greater and more unconditional than the love of the god she worships, would be sacrilegious and reveal more than she may have the nerve to see. What would she be without her little biblical deity?
There are many - and you Rex, and Kate, are likely two -- whose love is so naturally great that if they had the power they would end all earthly suffering anonymously right now; with no need of faith; no need of worship; no need of recognition; no need of any strings or conditions to be met or attached at all! You would do it secretly and truly-unconditionally for the pure joy of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. Please imagine the end of suffering, and the actual presense of lasting peace. Everyone, no matter their faith or beliefs can taste it's sweetness, smell it's lovely fragrance, and feel it's comforting warmth. Free. It's theirs now! they're in it! They can leave it if they want to, but it's here waiting, always, no charge, no faith needed, no nothing, UNCONITIONALLY! and you did it.....if you could, I mean.
How is it your love is more pure and divine than that attributed to Jesus? a god who requires the assurance of allegiance through faith before salvation is rendered? (and we won‘t even get into what forms of punishment are attached for noncompliance of the "unconditions"). Is it just me? or is there something very wrong here?
The universe is infinite in it's unspeakable grandeur and vibrancy. Certainly -- as Kate so wisely implied -- it's Source and Sustenance must be much more.
Perhaps in the act of mentally creating our limited man-gods and making them so bright and tiny a point, we (in our minds) darken and subtract the truth of Divinity from the entire rest of the universe and blind ourselves to what exists silent, pristine and truly unconditional an unending, around and within us.
How much more
can what the word G-O-D points to, be? than that handed down to us from the diminutive writings of ancient desert tribesmen?Ask the silent wisdom within your heart: Is God less? or is God more?
j
I hope you get to read this, James. I apologize for the late post.
The problem of evil has been one explained by better than I. Can you see that God (for the greater good) did not want puppets? He Himself offers to bear the burden of guilt and He did so. Christ bore all of the sins for any who would accept this gift. No one has to take it. Our souls are all eternal and will live on with or without being in His presence. Can we understand this completely? That's like asking if we can understand the enormity of the universe! Christianity has the best answer for 'the problem of evil'.
>There are many - and you Rex, and Kate, are likely two -- whose love is so naturally great that if they had the power they would end all earthly suffering anonymously right now; with no need of faith; no need of worship; no need of recognition; no need of any strings or conditions to be met or attached at all! You would do it secretly and truly-unconditionally for the pure joy of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.
You and I can live that life right now, here! That is what's at the root of Christ's teachings, regardless of whether you believe scripture is inerrant, infallible or not.
>Please imagine the end of suffering, and the actual presense of lasting peace. Everyone, no matter their faith or beliefs can taste it's sweetness, smell it's lovely fragrance, and feel it's comforting warmth. Free. It's theirs now! they're in it! They can leave it if they want to, but it's here waiting, always, no charge, no faith needed, no nothing, UNCONITIONALLY! and you did it.....if you could, I mean.
But what is 'faith', James? If you can accept that the teachings of Jesus are truly wonderful, that the 'Law of love' is transcendant, then what's the 'rub' you have against it? Believe HIM and let go of your pride. Accept the power that His love will give you in this life, right here and right now. What's so difficult about saying, "Jesus, you do indeed have the key to eternal life and I want to serve you as my Lord and do good to others just as you did and still do"? You don't have to earn it. You don't earn a gift. Forget all of the theological arguments and just recieve the gift.
Rex
Finally Free wrote:
Even if it all made sense, I still can't see how he could justify allowing all the world's problems continue just because Adam and Eve ate some stupid fruit. Whatever happened to the punishment fitting the crime?
Where is the MERCY in this equation? Seems like the bible's god is hell bent on justice, rules and punishment. Of all of god's characteristics, mercy seems to be his weakest. If he were a human, would you want to be his friend? That's why I no longer worship him. He's a wack job.
From a Judaeo-Christian viewpoint, we are set up for failure. Other religions/world views/philsophies have kinder, gentler gods.
