Please help me, I need advice on dating a JW!!

by Super_Becka 58 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  Stealth

  Welcome Super,

  It appears that your B/F is leading what the JW's call a "double life". One one hand he want to have a "worldly g/f", he does not have any issues with going against some of the JW beliefs, hell he even appoligizes for being a JW to others who may not view him in a good light. On the other hand he is not tollerant toward other things even though he has never been baptized into the religion.

  I have noticed that many of the things that he seems not to have an issue with are things that are very private matters, ie how would his family really know if you have had sex or not. It is not such a visiable outward display as the hollidays are.

  It is the same fear of disapproval that he appologizes to your family for that he does not want to even to consider Christmas even though he knows how important it is to you. It is this fear of disapproval from his own family who are JWs that is causing him to act this way.

  If he is 28 years old, never been baptized, only attends meetings once a year, appologizes to others for his faith instead of standing up to it, is okay with blood, sex & other things that can be kept on the down low, he is not really a witness IMO. If he was, he would be baptized and would stand up for his faith.

  IMO it is fear of disaproval from his own JW family is what is making him act this way. If he ever celebrates these holidays, they will shun him and never speak to him again. That is why he does not want to talk about it, he knows he is a hypocrite for being okay with these other things because they can stay hidden from his family.

  As a JW I didn't celebrate Christmas for 42 years of my life, even when I did it for the first time I felt weird and I was worried about my JW family finding out about it or the elders at the hall finding out about it. It is this fear of man that the cult ingrains into a young person that causes this.

  why should he be able to pick and choose the JW rules that he wants or does not want to obey. He wants to have sex because it will bring him pleasure and it can remain hidden from other JWs. However he does not want to agree to things that bring you pleasure because it can't remain hidden as easy and because it does not bring him pleasure. Is this not selfish on his part? If he really loved you he would want you to have this pleasure even though it is forien to him. Either he is a JW all the way or he is not.

  I don't mean to hurt you but IMO he sounds like a pussy that wants to play things from both ends. He is not really a witness, but does not want to do anything that will effect his relationship with his family. Who does he really love more, you or them, or the fear of them shunning him. These are questions that you should ask.

  Ask him how he feels about the pledge or the national anthem. Why can JWs stand up for the pledge as long as they do not say it or place hand over heart, but they can not stand in respect for the national anthem as long as they don't sing it?

  If he tells you that he does not have any issue with standing during the national anthem at a sporting even, then ask him this...

  Would he stand for the national anthem at a sporting even if is JW parents or other JWs were there and would see him??????

  likely he won't have an issue with doing these things as long as it remains hidden from others in the JW cult. Fear of disaproval of others is what drives him. Do you want to be with a person like this forever? Someone who will not stick up for you or even his own personal convictions because what someone else may think of him?

  Good luck on your journey whatever you decide.
• 

  144001

  Dear Super_Becka:

  I'm very sorry that you are experiencing emotional trauma as a result of your indirect exposure to the Jehovah's Witness cult. I read your first post in this thread thoroughly and have the following observations and advice to offer:

  • First, you pointed out that he is a "non-practicing JW." You also commented that in response to your questions as to why he "hates Christmas and always will," he stated, "I'm supposed to, it's against my religion." The first conclusion to be drawn here is that this individual does not use his brain much. He has "gr[own] up with the Watchtower Society's beliefs," and, despite the extreme deviation such beliefs represent when compared with the beliefs of an average person, he has never bothered to learn why his "religion" prohibits its members from celebrating christmas using the threat of disfellowshipping (excommunication)?

  • He told you that he loved you, within a week of meeting him, and, after dating for only six months, that "he's sure that he wants to marry [you] someday." You also pointed out that you are his first girlfriend, which you've assumed to be the result of his Witness upbringing. What this says is that this individual is at least partially socially retarded. He has no experience with romance or relationships, yet he wants to talk about having sex with you and masturbation, the latter of which I'm betting is his forte. You are what he believes to be his first love, yet he has no clue what love is yet, since he's never really experienced it. You are basicly his first try at it (a guinea pig of sorts), and there's little risk on the social side for him, since you're on the other side of the country and not a witness. If it doesn't work out, he will have no social repercussions at his congregation. No one will likely ever know about it.

  • Successful, loving relationships require compromise. As you've noted, he's "very intolerant of [your] celebrations . . . and really a killjoy about it." If he really loved you, he would put your relationship with him above the cult that controls his mind. He also said that if you "stay together, [you'll] have to go home to [your] parents' places for the holidays every year because he doesn't want anything to do with them." What are your parents going to think of such a situation? They are not going to like him, and rightfully so. Apparently, that is of no concern for this first time lover who "loves" you so much. Despite his failure to follow all of the edicts of the Watchtower corporations, he is choosing to follow the ones that will most adversely affect your emotional well-being and your (and his) relationship with your family. This man has no idea what "love" is, and, unfortunately, he's playing with your emotions and your life in an effort to find out.

  • It is clear to me that subconsciously, you already know that it is in your best interests to move on. Long distance relationships are already difficult without the added complication of the involvement by one of the partners in a cult that exercises extreme control over its members. But in addition to that fact, you've pointed out that he is a hypocrite; he picks and choose which Watchtower rules to follow, and he is "intolerant" about something as important to you as holiday celebrations, and won't even discuss the matter with you. You believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult, and note that he's very close minded about religion. Those are not exactly facts in favor of continuing the relationship, and they are facts that are significant enough to you to be included in your post.

  Becka, I was born and raised in this cult, and can attest to the emotional trauma and adverse effects on socialization that this cult inflicts upon all those who were raised in it. It took me years to shed the most serious effects of this cult, and I still don't feel entirely healthy on an emotional level as a result. A relationship with an individual under the circumstances you've cited is extremely likely to fail, and you will be the person most hurt.

  I also noted that you met this individual on "the rebound" from another relationship. The trauma associated with the breakup of your previous relationship rendered you emotionally vulnerable, and you have met someone who seemed to be the right guy for you at the time. But now at least 6 months have passed, and you're already having doubts, which, based on the doubts you've expressed, is a sign that your head is at least functioning in a healthy manner. Go with your instincts; I know it will be hard, but you need to dump this guy if you wish to be happy in your life. If you don't, you will be continuing a relationship with an individual who has significant emotional and social problems, and is 3,500 miles away, a formula for disaster.

  I wish you the best of luck.
• 

  Jez

  
  When you fall deep in love with him, and think you have a future together, and the shit all hits the fan,
  

  ie, his parents find out, his family and the elders...

  he will choose them over you. He will feel guilty, but inwardly triumphant because he has gotten validation that this is the "truth" because even in the face of irresistable temptation, (you), he stayed faithful to Jehovah. There is nothing that can compare to that kind of martyrdom for a JW.

  If you do stay together, you will always be the wicked unbeliever, the poor misguided soul that thinks she is getting some spirituality from her wicked church, the one that needs conversion, the one that won't obey her head (husband) and stop celebrating the holidays, etc.

  Remember, in the beginnings of a relationship, people say and do things that are not entirely true because they will not risk losing each other. Some deep seated beliefs and values will rear up later, especially if you marry him. Once he has his clutches deep into you, it WILL all surface. You may ask him questions now, but he is not going to answer them 100% honestly. He has been taught exactly how to thwart any potential conversation stopper, he doesn't even know it, but he is a master at conversation manipulation, half truths, masking, emotional manipulation, answering the question without answering the question, redirecting the conversation, one-sided arguing, and outright lying. IT IS HOW WE ARE TAUGHT! Ask any of us!!! To become self aware, is almost impossible and extremely painful and difficult. YOU can't get him there, it is something that he has to do on his own...and it doesn't seem like he wants to. You THINK he is answering the question, but he is probably just saying what he knows you need to hear, to stay. It may not seem important now, but someday, it will be the most important thing to both of you...and that is your deep seated values and belief system because these will act as a filter through which everything else is seen through, every decision, every argument, every disagreement, every compromise,
  every perception. Be afraid, be very afraid.

  From what you have said, he sounds like an immature wimp. Dump him, stay in university, and find someone there that matches you, let him find someone that matches him.

  Jez
• 

  Seeking Knowledge

  Super_Becka:

  There's not a whole lot I can add to what's already been said. I've been in your position, and my "unpracticing JW" and I were together for several years, I didn't question why he wanted to get married so soon or "loved" me so soon just thought that was how he was. He told me his parents hated me and therefore would have nothing to do with me, so I accepted it as their loss. I decorated my home (he lived with me) and celebrated all the holidays regardless of how he felt because I had a child and wasn't going to deny her anything. He never told me not to, he always accepted the gifts I bought. I had NO IDEA what he was going thru with his family and his religion. I NEVER questioned anything, I had no idea what being a JW was all about, just thought they didn't do birthdays or Christmas, never thought to ask why!! I was in love with this man and we were going to be together forever as far as I was concerned. I only wish NOW that I had questioned it and learned more about it. This site has been a great source for me.

  It wasn't until our own surprise was born that he was forced to face the lie that was his life. He turned on me (for lack of a better term) and went back to his flock & his family who accepted him with arms wide open. He married (within 6 months of leaving us) a "nice" JW girl, and had another son. Today he is in the middle of a divorce and his wife is pregnant with their second child. That's another story.

  My son attends meetings with his father as they fall on his court appointed visitation nites. I can't stop him, and since he now almost 5 years old, he's able to tell me what he's learning/hearing. I've always stressed to my son to question why he learns what he learns (in my religion as well) and try to stay on his level to explain that "that's what daddy believes" over what I believe. Our custody is that my son will be with me and his sister for all holidays and should the need for a blood transfusion come up, I get final say. The other day my son thought he should hide his halloween candy as "daddy doesn't like it" and it broke my heart. No kid should have to worry about offending or upsetting his parent at the age of 5!! I can only hope the kid grows up with some sanity at this point!

  I would never wish this on anyone. This is the most difficult thing I've ever had to face in my life. To watch my Ex, whom I loved very very much, treat me as if I am a non entity in our sons life and his as well. To watch him run off and marry so soon after moving out of our home and still telling me he loved me broke my heart in so many ways that now I can't even be in the same room with him, he is not the same person that he was when we were together (which of course, now I realize why). Even now, when he's hurting and divorcing and I should be laughing at him, I can't. I have to stay strong for our son and pick up the pieces left over from his father living the lie that is and has been, his life. Unfortunately, he now has my son and is doing what he can to indoctrinate him into his beliefs.

  You're doing the right thing. Ask the questions without confrontation. Let him know what you expect from a relationship with him, let him know that you will not tolerate lies or telling any future children that you are "bird food" etc. I understand you're not ready for marriage yet, you're so young which is smart, but it won't hurt to get as much information in your head as you can, but from my point of view, I can't see anything good come from this relationship. You could have been writing about my ex. If he's not "in" but still holds onto his beliefs because he was brought up that way, he'll never be "out".

  Good Luck

  SK
• 

  Jez

  Wow, SK, that was powerful. If that doesn't make her stop in her tracks and think, nothing will.

  I pm'ed you.

  Jez
• 

  hamsterbait

  Like most normal horny men, his hormones will be dictating (no pun intended) his behavior.

  He will be soo nice soo tolerant of your cutely eccentric beliefs and ideas. Once the ring is on your finger, and his penis inside your body a few times, he will revert to type.

  JW males expect to be treated like a king by their wife (he is her "Lord")

  RUN RUN RUN.

  There are plenty of well adjusted happifying fish in the sea. Don't let his gonads get to you.

  HB
• 

  delilah

  Welcome Super Becka....JGnat said, "

  Hypocricy is no big deal with JW's, they pretty well HAVE to be they have so many darn rules. To live the way they do, they often they pick and choose what to follow based on their own preference, and as long as nobody CATCHES them at the other stuff, everything is OK." This is so true...and his beliefs will prevail, let me tell you....no matter how hard you fight to preserve your identity, and your religious beliefs, the JW's think THEY are the only true religion. In the end, you will lose the battle my friend....sorry to rain on your parade....

  PLEASE heed the warnings you have read here....meet someone near your own town, or city...someone who is NOT a JW...it will prove to be nothing but trouble in the long run. You seem like an intelligent girl, RUN FAR AWAY from this situation while you still can. Good luck....there are plenty of fish in the sea...( I know, you've heard it said before) but it's true.
• 

  Enigma One

  SK...I'm so sorry.
  
  Super...SK's story is EXACTLY what I was referring to. I saw many of my "peers" do this kind of crap while they were Dub's. To JW's all non-JW's are "bird food", your flesh to be eaten in the soon to come Armeggedon. So if you hubby went running back to them, they would rejoice. Your feelings and thoughts would not be considered. Super, to them, you are GARBAGE. Something to be set outside on the curb. Nothing more, nothing less. For the short time he spends with you his parents will blame you for his lack of spirituality. TRUST me on this. I have seen it time and time again.
  
  I only hope you actually present him with the allegations and proof you said you are researching. What his reactions. That will tell you what he really is all about. There are lots of things on this site to help you, along with many resources. Good luck.
• 

  M.J.

  Sorry if I'm repeating anything. I haven't gone through all the responses, but I just have to tell you that I was in your exact situation several years ago. My then-girlfriend was "non-practicing", but still wouldn't participate in holidays, birthdays, etc. She at first never spoke of her JW involvement then one day let the cat out of the bag (after we were very much into each other already). I resolved that day that I needed to break up with her and I did...only to give into my weakness and heartache, going right back to her. Although my personal policy is to not fret about my past decisions, if I could have foreseen the consequences of that decision I would NEVER have done it.

  You mentioned that he's pretty relaxed about things now. That will change. My wife was scared back into full-fledged activity when she was pregnant with our first son. She was filled with anxiety that her son would be destroyed in Armageddon if she didn't get back with the program. Having children is the point in people's lives that really make them re-assess what their life is all about. They'll revert to what they've been conditioned to believe they should be doing.

  Well as time passed, she conformed more and more to the Watchtower regimen. She became more and more belligerent about the "truth"...Things progressively became more tense...I had no idea how to react or how to sway her...then came the time when she chose death rather than a blood transfusion...but very very narrowly survived. I was so very close to being a widower with small children. This shook me to the core.

  I can tell you that life is a constant ordeal with the JW elephant always in the room, while I incessantly stress about how I can prevent my children from becoming indoctrinated. Sorry for the rambling note but I really hope that my hindsight is worth SOMETHING if not for me, than for someone else. Please PM me if you have questions on anything!
• 

  Super_Becka

  It's so great to get lots of different viewpoints here, and I'm taking everything that I'm reading here into consideration, this is bringing up a lot of good concepts for me to look into. I've been looking into certain things on my own up until now, and with all of these replies, I have more things to look into. :)

  Some notes on his family and such:

  - I have met his parents and three of his siblings (the fourth lives far away, so I have yet to meet her, but she is very interested in meeting me), and from what I could see and what my boyfriend has told me, they seem to like me. I was nervous about meeting them because I knew that they're all JWs and I was sure that they wouldn't accept me, but they were very pleasant, very welcoming, and they seemed to genuinely like me. Even in conversation, when I mentioned things like going home for the holidays in December (yes, I did mention Christmas) and things like that as I was asked about school and my life at home, they just rolled with it, they didn't try to avoid any mention of my celebrations. His mother even made a point to ask me when my birthday is, which really caught me off-guard, it wasn't something I expected. I felt like I was chatting with a regular, non-JW family, there was no evidence whatsoever that they're Witnesses, I'm not even sure that they're active members. My boyfriend has told me that he hasn't been out in service in 20 years, so I can only imagine that his family is the same way, given how close they are.

  - Not only do his parents seem to approve of me, they've asked him when he plans to propose. I've warned him against proposal - I'm way too young and way too busy with my education to ever consider getting married yet and I'm very clear on that - but apparently his family is all up for it. On one hand, that makes me feel like I've been accepted by his family, even though they know that I'm not a Witness, but on the other hand, it concerns me because I know that JWs date only to marry, they tend to marry young and they marry right away (his mother married his father when she was 17). My question is, shouldn't they be more concerned about him potentially marrying a "worldly" girl?? His sister married two "worldly" men (she's currently married to her second husband) and that doesn't seem to have caused any trouble, but I do know that both of her husbands gave up their holidays for her, though I don't know if they did it voluntarily or because it was required.

  - Things like premarital sex doesn't seem to be an issue in his family - he has a sister who has two children out of wedlock (from two different men, no less), but she is not only still a part of his family, she visits her parents weekly and her children spend a lot of time with her parents. I get the feeling that his family is tight enough to stick together. After all, doesn't WTS doctrine state that premarital sex is grounds for shunning?? If having two children outside of marriage by two different men isn't evidence of that, then I don't know what is, and they haven't shunned his sister, they still welcome her into their home, she is still a loved member of their family.

  - Also, his father went to prison in the 1970s because he refused to go to Vietnam based on his beliefs - JWs aren't permitted to go to war, so he went to jail for his beliefs. But two of his brothers are actively involved in karate lessons, something else which is forbidden in the WTS - JWs aren't permitted to learn self-defence, they're anti-violence. It seems to me that my boyfriend's whole family, at least his immediate family (parents, siblings), all actively pick and choose which parts of WTS doctrine to follow and which to conveniently ignore.

  I know it sounds like I'm trying to defend everything that he does, but that's not it, I just want to put everything out there to see where all of this stands and what it could mean. I know I'm naive, but I still think that this relationship might have a chance, so I want to cover all of my bases before I put some effort into making this work out. I can be objective about this, I'm not conveniently ignoring anything that I don't particularly like, but I still think that there might be a shred of hope that I can help him choose me over the WTS. I want to make sure that you guys out there are seeing all the sides of this that I see, just so you can evaluate it like it is. If there's anything else you'd like to know before you give some advice, feel free to ask!!

  Thanks everyone!! Keep it coming!!

  -Becka :)