TRUST Poll...UBM'S I'm asking you

by jgnat 30 Replies latest social relationships

GoingGoingGone

1. On a scale of one to ten, one being the lowest, how do you rate the importance of trust in your relationship?
Ten.
2. One to ten, intimacy?
Eight.
3. One to ten, honesty?
Nine. And a half...
4. Does your partner trust you? Why?
Yes, he trusts me because I have always proved myself to be trustworthy. I have never lied to him or misled him or hidden anything important from him - until now, leaving the WT. And he knows that I hide some things now, but he also knows the reasons why. And I honestly think that if he didn't trust me so much, he would give me a much harder time about my clandestine activities than he does.
5. Do you trust your partner? Why?
Yes, because he has proved himself to be trustworthy, through good times and bad.
6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner?
The biggest break of trust in our marriage happened when he realized that I wasn't going to be a JW anymore. For a while it really shook his trust in me. He thought that everything about me had changed. In fact, he told me that he didn't know me anymore, that I wasn't the person he had married anymore. That hurt, because I was the same person, still a good wife and mother... believing that the WTBTS is not God's mouthpiece on earth does not make me a bad person!!
Once he realized that my ‘apostate’ activities were a betrayal to the WTS and not to him personally, or to our marriage, the trust he had in me before all this slowly returned.
My husband has never betrayed my trust, so he’s never had to rebuild it, either.
7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust?
Infidelity. Physical or emotional abuse.
8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them?
No.
9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal?
No.
10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question)
When you trust someone, you can rely on them and have confidence in the decisions they will make. I think it’s closely related to predictability.

The WT makes rules that govern every aspect of life. They tell you how to act, who to associate with, what to believe, etc. When one mate leaves the WT, none of that applies anymore, and the other mate is literally faced with someone who may now act in unpredictable ways, and whom they thus no longer trust. It really bothered me at first when my husband said he didn’t know me anymore, but now I understand what he meant. Personally, I have changed very little about myself since leaving the WT, largely to keep myself as predictable as possible. But I have the freedom to change if I want to, and I think that is really scary to him. So I had to tell him and show him what I believe now… I still want to stay married, keep our family intact, I still love him, I’m still honest with him, etc. I just don’t want to be a JW anymore. It took time for his trust in me to rebuild, I think, but it has. That’s not to say that we don’t have bad days, where he wants nothing more than for me to be a good JW again.. but they’re getting farther apart, it seems.

GGG
tetrapod.sapien

nice points everyone.
frog,
i agree. i think it's unnatural too, in the sense of the piece of paper and a vow before god. and i think that it's a bit unnatural too, to stay faithful sexually to a single person your entire life. i could be totally wrong in this view, and i am sure there are many smart people who totally disagree with me. but, that's okay. i just think it's unnatural, personally.
that said, us apes have been living in communities for a long time. strong male/female relationships develop within these. always have, and maybe always will. we'll see. but i think our biology is much looser morally than we give it credit for, LOL!
TS
jgnat

Again, excellent contributions. GGG, your comment about predictability resonates with my experience a LOT. I can hardly wait to share my experience with TRUST.
I've received a couple more poll ideas; FRIENDSHIP, and RESPECT. Keep those ideas rolling, they inspire me.
Check_Your_Premises

1. On a scale of one to ten, one being the lowest, how do you rate the importance of trust in your relationship?
11. To me marriage is completely betting the farm on another person. Not just yours, but all your progeny as well. If you really want to bring out what is at stake, let's consider all that my ancestors worked and sacrificed. I bet all that on a person who I need to have my back, see to my interests, and share my goals. Yeah, trust is pretty important to me.
2. One to ten, intimacy?
This is important to me from a practical standpoint. I need to know what she thinks about things, and we have to keep our trust intact. I don't have a big emotional need for intimacy. I enjoy it. Sometimes I would just rather go for a run or read a book. This is more important to her than me.
3. One to ten, honesty?
4. Does your partner trust you? Why?
She says she does. I have to think that if she did, she wouldn't need the security of the org. I don't have all the answers and never pretend to. She figures I can come up with some pretty good stuff if I get enough time, but I am not real quick on my feet. This is all pretty true. She respects my discipline and ability to overcome my upbringing. But she really doesn't have any illusions about me either I don't think.
5. Do you trust your partner? Why?
FOr the most part. The big thing where we are lacking is that she joined this org after I asked her to put it off. I only wanted a little time to understand the implications of her baptism. I also thought it was reasonable to ask her to look at the facts, with me, with a fresh set of eyes. I felt that, as her husband, this was a completely reasonable request. I would never have joined if she came to me that way. But the effects of mind control are deep and profound. She made a profound change in our life without my consent. To me, there is no "us". There is only "her". Even if she left the org tomorrow, I would still be looking for her next catastrophic choice.
6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner?
She has regained much of my trust. She does seem genuinely interested in making compromises in our life. In this regard she has been far better than many of the jw-spouse horror stories I have heard.
7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust?
Maybe to personal.
8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them?
Nope.
9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal?
This is pretty standard I think. The problem is when you present a negative aspect or cost you have had to endure as a result of their choice, it puts them in the impossible position of considering that the org has some toxic aspects to it. So naturally they will attempt to diminish your concerns. I often try to find ways to put them in my shoes. I think we all have attempted this, "how would you feel if I...".
10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question)
Poll questions:
How do you relate/interact with other witnesses or cong members?
Do you talk to non-jw family about your jw spouse?
Are you an "opposing mate"?
If you are a Christian, what are the most contentious subjects with your jw spouse?
When/how/what made you realize your marriage/family was threatened by your spouse's jw affiliation?
AuldSoul

1. On a scale of one to ten, one being the lowest, how do you rate the importance of trust in your relationship? 10
2. One to ten, intimacy? 10
3. One to ten, honesty? 10
4. Does your partner trust you? Why? Yes. She knows I would never intentionally harm anyone or anything. She knows for a fact that I will occasionally harm her, but she also knows it will never be intentional. She has never been given a reason to distrust me.
5. Do you trust your partner? Why? Yes. I have never been given a reason to distrust her. Although she does intentionally harm me occasionally, it is okay because I have a "safe word."
6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner? Both. Time alone could never rebuild my trust, I would have to observe evidence that the behavior that cost trust had been intentionally changed.
7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust? If my wife killed me it would be hard to get over, but eventually I would. If my wife had sexual relations with another man it could not be repaired, if she developed an emotional love for another man it would depend on the circumstances whether I could trust again.
8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them? No.
9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal? Yes. I have been guilty of the same.
10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question)
I believe that intimacy, trust, and honesty go together. Each is impacted by the others in dozens of ways. Any can be improved or weakened by action or inaction, each of these principles of relationships require effort to achieve and maintain.
How can you trust someone who does not know you to act in your best interests? What would motivate honesty with such a person? Intimacy is needed, the ability to know and be known.
How can you be completely honest with a person you don't trust? How could such an environment be conducive to intimacy? Trust is needed, the ability to believe another will not take advantage of your vulnerability.
How can you be intimate with someone with whom you cannot be yourself? How can you trust someone who doesn't know you, when they could accidentally exploit a vulnerability of which they were not even aware? Honesty is needed, the ability to express and act in a genuine way that reveals to another how you actually think and feel.
AuldSoul
twinflame

1. On a scale of one to ten, one being the lowest, how do you rate the importance of trust in your relationship? I rate the importance of it as a 10.
2. One to ten, intimacy? I'd rate the importance of itimacy as an 8; my husband would say it is a 10 since he gauges our relationship's success based on sex. He may be right because since my leaving JW's our intimacy has suffered greatly because of the other areas. I think intimacy is a reflection of our condition so right now it is probably a 1-2.
3. One to ten, honesty? I think it should be a 10 but I am unable to be completely honest when it comes to religion.
4. Does your partner trust you? Why? I don't think so, at least not like he used to. He has the mindset that only JWs are truly moral people, so how could he? He doesn't come out and say it, but after 30 years, I can read between-the-lines in his comments. If you can leave Jehovah then you're capable of anything, right?
5. Do you trust your partner? Why? Absolutely, in the area of fidelity. I have questioned trust in my safety at times when we have had anti-JW discussions. Even though the JWs talk often about items being possessed by demons, I think it is them that become possessed by the WTS.
6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner? N/A
7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust? Physical violence in any degree would absolutely destroy any and every thing. Or if I heard about him talking about my stand against the JWs in a public talk of any kind and using my 'apostasy' as an example.
8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them? Everything is always my fault because I'm the one that changed. He only wants what's best for me. I'm the one that left Jehovah.
9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal? The only example I can think of for this is that my husband completely diminishes every thing I have ever found out about JW lies and he thinks I have been completely brainwashed by apostates.
10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question) I made a comment last week to my husband about something I had read on the board, before I thought about where I would have gotten the information. He made no comment at the time but then asked me a couple of days later why I had asked the question. I told him I read it on the internet and he wanted to know if I was still going to 'apostate websites'. I told him I still read things from time to time. He immediately wanted to know when I started that again, how often, who I talked to and why did I still feel like I needed to do that. How do you answer all those questions tactfully, without causing insult? I told him it would be better if we really didn't discuss it because I didn't want to make him feel bad. He kept persisting so the conversation did not go well. The point I finally made to him was that he needed to accept that I am no different from all the other 'apostates' on 'those' websites that he is so disgusted by. I told him I hate the WTS and we should not discuss them or it just causes problems for our relationship. So far it was left as a 'to be continued' episode. He just doesn't know what to think about me and what I have become. I find trust, honesty and openness something very difficult to maintain through all of this.
jgnat

I want to comment in detail to all of you, but I want to speak to this right away:
He immediately wanted to know when I started that again, how often, who I talked to and why did I still feel like I needed to do that. How do you answer all those questions tactfully, without causing insult?
Now if that isn't elder-speak, I don't know what is. Call it my sensitive nose to manipulation, but really, ALL JW'S are far too nosy regarding people's personal affairs. They ask all kinds of questions that are none of their business, and act as if they are entitled to the information! This is a sign of a dysfunctional community, where your individuality is not respected.
I'd shoot right back, "Why the third degree? Do you think I am having an affair or something?"
Remember, you don't have to answer every question. I think this is an important step in establishing your individuality away from the group.
twinflame

Call it my sensitive nose to manipulation, but really, ALL JW'S are far too nosy regarding people's personal affairs. They ask all kinds of questions that are none of their business, and act as if they are entitled to the information! This is a sign of a dysfunctional community, where your individuality is not respected.
OMG, you hit it right on the head! Welcome to my world. So many people have suggested counseling to me to help overcome our 'problems'. We tried that a year ago and the counselor wanted to also do individual counseling with me, probably because he knew I could not speak freely. I tried 2-3 sessions that I believe could have turned into something good but every time I returned from one, I was asked about every detail about every question asked and every answer I gave. If I wasn't forthcoming about everything, he was paranoid about what I was saying and thinking I was hiding something. He was so worried that I would be given advice to leave him. This removed any and all benefit I felt I was getting from the counseling. Go figure....
jgnat

Not good. He thinks you are an extension of himself.
http://www.dealtime.com/xPR-Boundaries_Where_You_End_and_I_Begin_by_Anne_Ma_Katherine~RD-978299
Severus

"The sexiest thing is Trust"
-Tori Amos

TRUST Poll...UBM'S I'm asking you

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