Any one here Know much about homeopathic med's?

by lydia 26 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  lydia

  Hey I am just wondering again - ( I know I might just get lost ..but????)

  Has any one here done any research or ever practiced Homeopathic Medicine??
  I am looking into it and would lve any input on it.

  Thanks!!

  Lyd
• 

  RedhorseWoman

  I've done very little, but I have used Bach Flower Remedies on nervous horses and aggressive cats with a good deal of success.
• 

  Quotes

  Well, I am no expert, but I have read numerous books and articles on the subject. I think it can best be summed up by the following quote from http://www.homeowatch.org/

  Homeopathic "remedies" are usually harmless, but their associated misbeliefs are not. When people are healthy, it may not matter what they believe. But when serious illness strikes, false beliefs can lead to disaster. This Web site provides information about homeopathy that is difficult or impossible to find elsewhere.

  Rather reminds me of the beliefs of a certain door-knocking religion...

  The most important thing to know about homeopathic "remedies": they have been so diluted -- intentionally, mind you -- that when analysed they are show to have *NO ACTIVE INGREDIENTS*... which is good, because the active ingredients are frequently poisonous (Beladonna was the first homeophathic substance). Check out http://www.homeowatch.org/ and then save your money.

  In particular, this is a good place to start: http://www.homeowatch.org/articles/fdac2.html

  ===========================
  For interesting Watchtower Society literature quotes, complete with references but without any editorial, check out:
  http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com
• 

  dungbeetle

  I have a little knowledge and some extensive personal expereiences with homeopathic remedies, but I find that when they give relief they don't do so very quickly--a serious problem when you need to get back to work soon.

  I find the herbal remedies are sooo much better, and faster. They also are not as safe. There are always the risks of an unexpected allergy, and if taking medication, it definitely may not be safe.

  Quotes and redhorse woman give good advice--research research research. My email is open if you want it.

  UADNA-US (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America-United States)
• 

  Introspection

  It would depend on what you're trying to treat. Based on the condition, you can see if the theory behind it makes any sense, and then there's the matter of whether it works in practice, and how good the practitioner is. I understand that in classical homeopathy only one remedy is chosen to fit the person's constitution and such, the practitioner does a detailed intake to try and figure that out.

  One thing that I find significant is that I have been told by a health care professional (not one that actively practices homeopathy, just someone who knows about it, though they're not against it) that a homeopath will withhold certain information from you in terms of what they think you're like, your constitution etc. indicating a belief that your opinion of their assessment of you will have an impact on the results. Now we know about the placebo effect, but whether it's perceived or real change, if the mind makes a difference why not work with that? If it doesn't, then this wouldn't be necessary.

  So it seems to me this points to the role of the mind, which is something I think is important. Frankly on a behavioral level we know that bad habits in your lifestyle can create chronic problems of different types, and a lot can be changed if you can change those behaviors. We can also talk about stress, yet another function of the mind, so there's a lot that you can impact there. But what it comes down to is the individual rather than a substance or something external.

  Homeopathic "remedies" are usually harmless, but their associated misbeliefs are not. When people are healthy, it may not matter what they believe. But when serious illness strikes, false beliefs can lead to disaster.

  Well, if there's not a molecule of the stuff left the remedy itself can't do any harm, and considering the remedies really cost very little money isn't really an issue as far as the stuff itself is concerned. What is an issue is failure to seek other treatment, which the author here fails to explicitly state. Beliefs have to do with the believer, not the stuff you use. If you want to spend a few bucks on the side just to see if it works it's probably not going to do any harm, but common sense dictates that you consider all treatment options if you don't want to or can't afford to use yourself as a guinea pig. For some people, especially those who've exhausted conventional treatment options, they can't afford NOT to seek alternatives if it is a serious illness. Naturally you'll want to make an educated decision in all cases, but I tend to agree with the guy that said "to regard our ignorance as knowledge, this is mental sickness."
• 

  singsongboi

  in the hands of a skilled practioner, homeopathy can be excellent.

  in the hands of an unskilled practioner, it can make you worse.

  Hahnemman (the founder of the system) said he would rather swallow razorblades than take the wrong medicine.

  i suggest that you should not treat it as harmless.

  and i suggest that you doan treat yourself -- i did, with some bad results.

  btw.- a swiss practioner, well - he used homeopathy as well as other remedies, by name of vogel (australians know him through vogels bread) was once a jw. he wrote a book that lots of brothers used to own called "Nature Doctor".

  mostly fairly sensible stuff, tho one thing, at least, was dangerous. i wote him about it, but he did not reply to my letter... But the next edition of his book changed the presentation of that treatment.

  he claimed (when i met him) that he had treated people in NY bethel.

  once stayed in tahiti with my former sister-in-law. she said he was always excited about the plants he passed, and knew a lot about them.

  he died ( i believe) disfellowshipped.
• 

  cynicus

  There are dangers too.

  http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

  Alfred Vogel was never disfellowshipped AFAIK. You can find his biography at:

  http://www.bioforce.ch/en/a.vogel/alfred_vogel.html

  In recent years, most of Alfred Vogel’s findings and research has been confirmed in scientific studies. This gives the people who work for his company the strength and courage to put into practice the high standards set by Dr. h.c. Alfred Vogel, honorary doctor for medicinal botany at the University of Los Angeles.

  This is a very questionable statement though. The story below is fairly interesting, especially since the WTBS has found it important to publish several times about scientific fraud in the last decade. Both Bioforce AG, and its Dutch subsidiary named Biohorma bv ( http://www.biohorma.nl ) have been involved in accusations of such scientific fraud. As a result of publications about this, Biohorma has since in their Dutch advertising and publications refrained from calling him 'doctor' anymore but in other countries they hold on to the lie, as illustrated by the biography of their own site. Dutch Biohorma private stock owners, management and senior staff are all JWs.

  Volgens Zwitserse krantenartikelen (Die Weltwoche, 23 oktober 1986, Schweizerische Handelszeitung 15 september 1989, St.Galler Tagblatt, 10 en 13 september 1986) gaat het om de University of California. In de Schaffhauser Nachrichten van 8 oktober 1996 schrijft Clemens Umbricht in een paginagroot artikel dat het gaat om de University of California, Los Angeles, 1952, en ook in Swiss Pharma (vol. 5 (12), 1983, p.27-33) staat in een artikel ter gelegenheid van het 20-jarig bestaan van Bioforce AG in Roggwil TG weer de 'University of California in Los Angeles' genoemd. Vogel moet ook erg trots op zijn titel zijn geweest, want zelfs zijn handtekening in het voorwoord van Anders beter worden ziet eruit als: 'Dr h c A Vogel'.

  According to the Swiss newspaper articles (Die Weltwoche, 23 october 1986, Schweizerische Handelszeitung 15 september 1989, St.Galler Tagblatt, 10 and 13 september 1986) it is the University of California. In the paper Schaffhauser Nachrichten of 8 october 1996 a full size article written by Clemens Umbricht is stated that it is the University of California, Los Angeles, 1952, and also Swiss Pharma (vol. 5 (12), 1983, p. 27-33) contains an article for the occasion of the 20-year anniversary of Bioforce AG in Roggwill where the 'University of California in Los Angeles' is mentioned once more. Vogel was apparently very proud of his title since even his signature in the foreword of Anders beter worden ('Healing in different way') looks like 'dr h c A Vogel' [hc = honoris causa, a honorary doctorate].

  Maar bij deze universiteit is geen 'Dr. Alfred Vogel' bekend. Die universiteit heeft voor mij alle jaren van 1868 tot 1972 doorgezocht (na 1972 werden er geen 'honorary degrees' meer gegeven). Ook een department, instituut of studierichting die correspondeert met de naam 'Institute of Osteopathy, Chiropractic and Naturopathy' heeft niet bestaan als onderdeel van de University of California. Een verzoek om opheldering bij Bioforce zelf leverde ook niets op. Dit bedrijf, dat de naam van Alfred Vogel te pas en te onpas voorziet van het prefix 'Dr. h.c.', was na ruim drie maanden zoeken niet in staat documentatie over te leggen die opheldering kon verschaffen over de herkomst van deze titel. De president-commissaris van het miljoenenbedrijf liet me weten ook niet te begrijpen welk wetenschappelijk doel deze vraag diende.

  But there is no 'dr. Alfred Vogel' known at this university. The university has searched on my demand all years from 1868 to 1972 (after 1972 honorary doctorates were no longer granted). There also was never a department by the name of 'Institute of Osteopathy, Chiropractic and Naturopathy' as part of the University of California. A request for more information with Biohorma didn't produce any result. This company, that in and out of season prefixes the name of Alfred Vogel with the title 'Dr. h.c.' was after a search of three months not able to show any documentation that can give an explanation about the origin of this title. The CEO of this company worth millions told me that he couldn't understand what scientific goal was served by this question.

  Eigenlijk gaat het om twee vragen: hoe kon, tijdens het leven van Vogel, de aanduiding 'University of California' (mogelijk gevestigd te Los Angeles) veranderen in 'California University, Los Angeles', en de tweede vraag was wat dat dan wel voor instelling was en wat die te maken had met een instituut voor osteopathie, chiropraxie en natuurgeneeskunde?

  In fact there are two questions involved: how could, during the life of Vogel, de designation 'University of California' (possibly located in Los Angeles) change in 'California University, Los Angeles', and the second question was what kind of institution it was and what it had to do with an institute for osteopathy, chiropractic and naturopathy?

  Als het instituut was opgeheven, was de universiteit dan misschien blijven bestaan? Instituten kunnen vergaan, maar universiteiten blijven bestaan. In Nederland zijn toch hele faculteiten gesloten in het kader van bezuinigingen? Een telefoongesprek met de University of Southern California leerde me dat het begrip 'honorary doctorate' daar niet bekend is. Bij de California State University wisten ze precies wat ik bedoelde, maar die verleent geen doctoraten, laat staan eredoctoraten. Overigens is 'medische botanie' een vreemde omschrijving voor een eredoctoraat. Het vakgebied van een eredoctoraat wordt meestal heel ruim omschreven. Ook wordt er bij de verlening van een eredoctoraat niet over een nacht ijs gegaan, en een docent die helaas snel vertrekken moet even nog zo'n papier geven lijkt een ongebruikelijke gang van zaken.

  If the institute indeed was discontinued, was the university still existent? Institutes can disappear but universities do not. In the Netherlands whole faculties were closed down as of cost reducing. One telephone call to the University of South California learned me that the title 'honorary doctorate' is not known there. At the California State University they knew exactly what I meant, but that university doesn't grant doctorates, not to mention honorary doctorates. Anyway, the description 'medical botany' is quite a strange one for a honorary doctorate. The specialty of a honorary doctorate is in general described in very broad terms. The grant of such a doctorate is normally not an easy process, and to give a teacher who is a hurry to leave such a document just before he leaves, seems very unlikely.

  

  Eén raadsel heb ik wel kunnen oplossen. Er heeft een 'University of California of Liberal Physicians' bestaan, en wel gevestigd te Los Angeles, maar die is verdwenen, en alleen hun blanco diploma's zijn nog maar te vinden in het Museum for Questional Medical Devices (zie Skepter maart 1997). Dit museum had ze gekregen samen met veel andere spullen die beschikbaar kwamen toen de American Medical Association haar kwakzalversmuseum ophief. De blanco diploma's zijn ondertekend door president Carl Schultz N.D. D.C. D.O. en secretaris Karl M. Pretz N.D. Het handschrift van beide heren lijkt nogal op elkaar (2). N.D. staat voor Naturopathy Doctor, D.C. voor Doctor of Chiropractic en D.O. voor Doctor of Osteopathy. Ik heb niet kunnen achterhalen of deze CULP meer was dan een diplomafabriek, wanneer en waarom ze zijn opgeheven. John B. Bear, een deskundige op het gebied van niet-traditionele opleidingen en auteur van een regelmatig vernieuwd handboek (in 1982 getiteld How to get the degree you want) op dat gebied kon me niet helpen. Ik denk aan de slotwoorden van Eco's De naam van de roos (1980): '... een enkele keer was er een half blad gespaard gebleven, schemerde er een incipit, een titel door. De roos van weleer bestaat als naam, naakte namen houden we over.'

  I have been able to solve one puzzle. There indeed was a 'University of California of Liberal Physicians', seated in Los Angeles, but it has disappeared, although their blank diploma's can be found in the Museum for Questionable Medical Devices. This museum received them together with a lot of other artefacts when the American Medical Assocation discontinued their museum of quackery. The blank diploma's are signed by president Carl Schultz N.D. D.C. D.O as doctor of chiropractic and secretary Karl M. Pretz N.D. The handwriting of both gentleman is stunningly equal. N.D. stands for Naturopathy Doctor, D.C. for Doctor of Chiropractic, and D.O. for Doctor of Osteopathy. I haven't been able to find out if this CULP was anything else than just a diploma factory, or when and why they were discontinued. John B. Bear, an expert in the field of non-traditional education en author of a regularly updated handbook (titled in 1982 How to get the degree you want) could not help me. I'm reminded to the last words of Eco's The name of the Rose (1980): '... sometimes half a page had been salvaged, and an incipit, a title, was legible. The rose of old times exists as name, naked names are what remain.'

  The full Dutch text of this article can be found at: http://www.skepsis.nl/vogel.html The author, Jan Willem Nienhuys studied mathematics at the University of Utrecht, and was a teacher for many years at the Technical University of Eindhoven. He co-authored Discrete wiskunde (Discrete mathematics, 1991) and The 'Mars Effect' (1996).

  ---
  Every absurdity has a champion to defend it.
• 

  Amazing

  In the late 1970s, Homeopathy became faddish among JWs just as Amway, Shackley, and a host nof other get-rich-to-pioneer, or get-healthy-to-pioneer type schemes ... including changing out all the silver-mercury fillings in ones teeth.

  Many Chiropractors have also become licensed in Homeopathy, Naturopathy, and a few other - pathies, including use of machines to straighten out your natural electrical fields.

  Chiropractic itself has a scientific basis, but the problem is that many people see it as an alternative medicine rather than a supporting or complimentary treatment to other forms of medicine. Ethical Chiropractors properly inform and work with their patients to make sure they get proper care.

  Homeopathy has some roots in proper medicine, but it is not very scientific ... and likewise all the others, Naturopathy, Electrical Field Treatment, etc. They all lack the good rigors of science. And, like Chirpopractic, many who get convinced of these treatments, peddle them as cure-alls, something hidden from us by the Greedy AMA who wants to push standard medicine.

  However, if these cure-alls really worked, their peddlers would be rich by now, and the AMA and the Pharmacy industry would be bankrupt because of all the healthy people.

  I briefly looked at Homeopathy, and started by taking some of the C-Salt. It was also prescribed for my wife's depression ... other than psychosomatic-placebo effects, it didn't really work. It was being talked about hush-hush in our congregation because of fear the Elders would give a talk and discourage it ... but in fact, the opposite happened, and the Elders endorsed it.

  Before I would get into Homeopathic treatments, I would talk it over with a regular physician, and also get some books on it ... one that endorses and teaches it ... and one critical and shows the scientific problems with it.
• 

  MegaDude

  When I was married to a JW, my mother in law was homeopathic practitioner. My wife at the time was quite a believer in it and was constantly after me to try it for different things.

  I thought it was complete quackery. I refused to use the remedies.

  I used to get these terrible sinus infections every year that would put me out of commission for a week. Finally, when I felt so bad, I gave in and tried a homeopathic remedy for it and was back on my feet the next day. I was impressed, but not convinced.

  The second time was for a more embarassing problem. I got a urinary tract infection. If you don't know how painful they are, watch the movie "The Green Mile." We're talking agonizing pain. I took a homeopathic remedy for it and it completely removed the pain within seconds. It worked. No doubt about it.

  Homeopathy works. However, I would only go to someone who is a skilled practitioner and someone with lots of experience. There are plenty of quacks in the field of homeopathy, just as there are in the medical profession. I should know. I see cases every month where medical doctors botch surgical procedures or diagnosing an illness much to the detriment of a patient.
• 

  LDH

  Pls ask Mulan. She knows her stuff and her dad was a licensed natureopath. I'm REALLY hard to impress but like I said, she really knows her stuff.

  Lisa