I'm having a problem here.
Now before I say anything. I want you to know, I'm not badmouthing you guys, and honestly, I'm not badmouthing witnesses, or any other religion for that matter, as it is counter productive.
I was a witness since I was born, even when I was little, I was pretty chill with it all, but didn't like to go to church. It was good for me, I knew in my heart, because it let me meet people that I normally wouldn't adjust to, and it also allowed me to learn how to read way past my level as early as three years of age.
As a teenager, I went in the ministry when I was with my sibling who was a pioneer. The kind that everyone loves. She woke up every day at 5 went out, went to work, then went out again. My parents had both pioneered and my father was an elder. I have several missionaries and people that had even been thrown in prison for what they believe.
I pioneered, even was applying for bethel, up until the day I decided, I was an athiest. I had tried to believe it because it was a logical system in many ways, but I could not prove god, and still do not think there is a god.
My family has not shunned me, I still speak with my mother every night on the phone. I am well behaved, but do not tell my family everything. They do not accept my dating my boyfriend but say if we marry he is welcome in their home.
I had a low resistance..... I guess its a disassociation (no clue). I didn't have elders come after me. The one meeting I did go to after going to for six months was full of people hugging me and some crying. People liked me because I was logical, and made them see their religion (positively) in a new way they never thought of...although I can do that for any belief system, I made them happy.
I did have one bad encounter with a woman that lost her child to bad conduct before I left. She said I must have helped unconvert him..I have never spoken with her child (he is a weed head as are his non JW siblings). But I never blamed her, I felt bad for her since she was mentally ill. I can't be angry with people for their own issues.
When I come to places like this, I am saddened. I know many of you must have had a rough time..or worse. I think some of you probably had worse done to you as I know in ANY faith or belief, there are extremists, and things that are left to opinion caan be forced if you do not know what your right it.
I think if you left the organization, that may be good for you, but after, you must not let yourself remain wounded. Acting with emotion, instead of logic, can make some points look non credible. Flat out making fun of the witnesses makes some look less credible too. (This also applies to atheist/Christian debates).
When we became witnesses, we swore to accountability. It isn't like some religions that are passive about rules. Witnesses make sure you keep your promises, and remind you 5 times a week of what you made a deal for. So when you quit is not so much a sense of guilt as it is failure you have when you leave because of that. it may cause some to want to find any reason to blame the witnesses for bad feelings that we cause for ourselves. It may also help some think that their loved ones that have sunned them won't blame them and be social with them again.
When I quit I was scared my parents would never talk to me again, as it turns out. My mother informed me I was over reacting, and unless I did something horrible like lie to her (or basically crap on the way they raised me) they would always talk to me and help me if I needed it, because I was their child.
I don't hate the witnesses like you guys so I am in a weird spot. I guess I have no motive to believe in anything anymore (not a bad thing).
When I was a witness, I was taught to avoid you guys, at the same time I wanted to help people like you. Your wounds are heal able I don't care if you want in or out, but I think that if you want out of the religion and want out there are ways of making clean breaks. If you are out and were hurt, you can heal, and if you are out and suddenly want back in it is possible.
The point of this post was a vent, and perhaps to share my unique clean break.
I don't feel good towards the way people of almost any belief system represents themselves unless they are brutally honest and logical.. If only logic could be a belief system then I guess we would all be happy.
Ramblings of a clean break.
by Ex Nihilo 27 Replies latest members private
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Ex Nihilo
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IP_SEC
May I?
I'm having a problem here. Now before I say anything. I want you to know, I'm not badmouthing you guys, and honestly, I'm not badmouthing witnesses, or any other religion for that matter, as it is counter productive. I was a witness since I was born, even when I was little, I was pretty chill with it all, but didn't like to go to church. It was good for me, I knew in my heart, because it let me meet people that I normally wouldn't adjust to, and it also allowed me to learn how to read way past my level as early as three years of age. As a teenager, I went in the ministry when I was with my sibling who was a pioneer. The kind that everyone loves. She woke up every day at 5 went out, went to work, then went out again. My parents had both pioneered and my father was an elder. I have several missionaries and people that had even been thrown in prison for what they believe. I pioneered, even was applying for bethel, up until the day I decided, I was an athiest. I had tried to believe it because it was a logical system in many ways, but I could not prove god, and still do not think there is a god. My family has not shunned me, I still speak with my mother every night on the phone. I am well behaved, but do not tell my family everything. They do not accept my dating my boyfriend but say if we marry he is welcome in their home. I had a low resistance..... I guess its a disassociation (no clue). I didn't have elders come after me. The one meeting I did go to after going to for six months was full of people hugging me and some crying. People liked me because I was logical, and made them see their religion (positively) in a new way they never thought of...although I can do that for any belief system, I made them happy. I did have one bad encounter with a woman that lost her child to bad conduct before I left. She said I must have helped unconvert him..I have never spoken with her child (he is a weed head as are his non JW siblings). But I never blamed her, I felt bad for her since she was mentally ill. I can't be angry with people for their own issues. When I come to places like this, I am saddened. I know many of you must have had a rough time..or worse. I think some of you probably had worse done to you as I know in ANY faith or belief, there are extremists, and things that are left to opinion caan be forced if you do not know what your right it. I think if you left the organization, that may be good for you, but after, you must not let yourself remain wounded. Acting with emotion, instead of logic, can make some points look non credible. Flat out making fun of the witnesses makes some look less credible too. (This also applies to atheist/Christian debates). When we became witnesses, we swore to accountability. It isn't like some religions that are passive about rules. Witnesses make sure you keep your promises, and remind you 5 times a week of what you made a deal for. So when you quit is not so much a sense of guilt as it is failure you have when you leave because of that. it may cause some to want to find any reason to blame the witnesses for bad feelings that we cause for ourselves. It may also help some think that their loved ones that have sunned them won't blame them and be social with them again. When I quit I was scared my parents would never talk to me again, as it turns out. My mother informed me I was over reacting, and unless I did something horrible like lie to her (or basically crap on the way they raised me) they would always talk to me and help me if I needed it, because I was their child. I don't hate the witnesses like you guys so I am in a weird spot. I guess I have no motive to believe in anything anymore (not a bad thing). When I was a witness, I was taught to avoid you guys, at the same time I wanted to help people like you. Your wounds are heal able I don't care if you want in or out, but I think that if you want out of the religion and want out there are ways of making clean breaks. If you are out and were hurt, you can heal, and if you are out and suddenly want back in it is possible. The point of this post was a vent, and perhaps to share my unique clean break. I don't feel good towards the way people of almost any belief system represents themselves unless they are brutally honest and logical.. If only logic could be a belief system then I guess we would all be happy. (also this shows up as a brick of teext...how do I fix that?) -
Gopher
Hi Ex Nihilo, interesting post !! Welcome aboard.
My family has not shunned me, I still speak with my mother every night on the phone. I am well behaved, but do not tell my family everything.
You are very fortunate. A lot of us are not, and blame the organization and its culture of fear primarily. Some on the board put blame on the individual JW's who shun, while others say it's fear of the organization. Good for you that you're discreet in your communication with the family. That helps keep the peace.
I think if you left the organization, that may be good for you, but after, you must not let yourself remain wounded.
That's part of why we came here, to gain a feeling that we're not the only ones who have been wounded by the organization. I've seen many people (including myself) make great emotional progress, and stay on the board to help still others.
Acting with emotion, instead of logic, can make some points look non credible. Flat out making fun of the witnesses makes some look less credible too
Sometimes though, people must vent -- it can be part of the healing process. Just having the freedom to say "damn you, Watchtower" a few times can be liberating. Sometimes - some JW's are so full of themselves, they're not above criticism or satire (just like other ridiculous people). Some JW's are actually loving and kind, in spite of being in a hateful religion.
When we became witnesses, we swore to accountability. It isn't like some religions that are passive about rules.
I don't think the Pharisees of the first century were passive about rules either. They had a long list of them, just like the WT Society does!
So when you quit is not so much a sense of guilt as it is failure you have when you leave because of that.
The human spirit longs for freedom. I don't think there's anything wrong with recognizing that it is not a feature of JW-type living, and wanting to do things like have a college education, pursue an interesting career, or choose the entertainment you want without feeling like someone's going to "catch" you.
it may cause some to want to find any reason to blame the witnesses for bad feelings that we cause for ourselves.
I would suggest instead, that the JW's are always reminded that they're not doing enough. I was also taught from a young age that the "group" was more important than the individual, and that individual desires are to be sacrificed. And remember, always watch out in case you are stumbling someone! Any dang thing you do might stumble someone.
I don't hate the witnesses like you guys so I am in a weird spot.
I don't hate JW's individually either (well not most of them). I despise the totalitarian methods of control exhibited by the WTS leadership, as well as the hypocrisy and do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do mentality their teachings foster.
If only logic could be a belief system then I guess we would all be happy.
Logic = reasoning. Belief has more to do with emotion than with reasoning. It's apples and oranges.
This shows up as a brick of text...how do I fix that?
You can click the Automatic Cr/Lf box right above where it says 'submit post'. I hope that works for you.
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IP_SEC
you must not let yourself remain wounded. Acting with emotion, instead of logic, can make some points look non credible.
I totally agree.
Flat out making fun of the witnesses makes some look less credible too. (This also applies to atheist/Christian debates).
Perhaps but being able to laugh and joke about things you once could not is part of the healing process.
it may cause some to want to find any reason to blame the witnesses for bad feelings that we cause for ourselves.
I think this is true of some here. Coming to terms with that is also part of the healing process.
Healing is a process Ex Nih. It takes some people more time than others. We have to be patient with that process.
Welcome to JWD.
matt
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journey-on
Ex Nihlo
Welcome. Your thread was a bit hard to read because of the lack of paragraphs, however, if I read you right, you are saying to those here at JWD to "just get over it". Am I right? If so, I kind of agree with you. However, everybody had their own story and sad tale to tell.
Your mother does not shun you and has told you she never will unless as you put it you start "crapping on the way you were raised." Were you ever baptized a witness? Sometimes this makes a big difference in the way your family chooses to treat you. My mother did not shun her df'd sons either and she and I were extremely close although I left the witnesses when my children were small. My sister who is a devout and fanantical JW and whose husband is a long time elder in their cong. does not shun her son either. Although being raised a witness, he never got baptized and walked away from it when he turned 18. But I can just about guarantee that if he had been baptized, she would have cut him out of her life in an instant.
You said:
but I think that if you want out of the religion and want out there are ways of making clean breaks
Sure there are, but it's not so easy for some folks. Your parents didn't turn on you, but just read some of the posts here about the ones who did. Sometimes a clean break is not that easy to accomplish psychologically and emotionally. This forum exists to support and assist those who still deal with the scars of having been associated with this crazy religion.
Stay on board and get to know us. Your input is appreciated.............Journey-on
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Ex Nihilo
Journey, I was a pioneer for a few years and had re submitted a bethel app.
My sister is the definition of fanatic. My parents even think shes nuts.
And I am not saying you guys should just get over it. Some had to go through a lot of garbage probably. Some congregations are full of unstable people, many people that seek religion are seeking relief from their stresses, troubles and sometimes self inflicted craziness. I think I lived in ideal land or something. We all need a vent for it so it is understandable.
I think I am a bit naive sometimes, but I do know of potential for things to go ugly in any faith.
And sorry about the paragraphs. It's a n00b thing to happen. I'm not dumb I promise. Heck I use Linux, so I am by no means computer brain dead.
(Fixed paragraphs) -
Eliveleth
Ex Nihilo,
Welcome! Thank you for your observations. There are a lot of people who post here who have been terribly hurt by the policies of the Watchtower. There are many different people in the ranks of Jehovah's Witnesses. There are some elders and people within the congregations that are very liberal and who treat people with kindness and dignity. However, there are some in other congregations that go by the book and who will disfellowship anyone who does not agree with them. Many of the people here have been extremely hurt by what has happened to them. If you stick around, or read back posts you will hear their stories. Each person heals at their own rate. We all have had to get beyond it. Some are still on their way and have to vent. This may sound gross but it is like taking poison. You have to vomit and vomit until you get it all out.
We were JWs for almost 50 years. We believed everything we were told by the WT. We believed they had the "truth". My husband was an elder from 1947 until 1981. We saw lots of things that were not right, but we just "waited on Jehovah" to fix them. In at the beginning of 1983, after going to the WT study and hearing the comments about "apostates" and seeing downright hatred in the voices of some of the elders regarding them, I stopped going to the meetings. There were other circumstances that led up to this, but this was the last straw.
I do not hate Jehovah's Witnesses. We still have a son and his family and a sister and her family in the organization. We love them and all the friends that we cultivated over the years as JWs. Everything I learned and everything that happened to me over my lifetime has made me who I am today and I would not want to go back and change any of it. I do not regreat my years as a JW.
There are a lot of things that I wish the WT would change. Mostly their unkindness in disfellowshipping, which destroys families and relationships. I pray that you will stick around and get to know the people here. They are coping in the best way they know how. There are many here who do not believe in God, but there are some who do. I think you will get a balanced view if you keep an open mind.
Love and hugs,
Velta
ps Sorry I am using such large print but the small print is hard for me to read
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Ex Nihilo
Your words are well written. They put me at ease. To be honest, of all the ex witness forums, you guys are the first that didn't bother me or throw blatant lies out. You guys do seem pretty level headed. You aren't defensive either.
My sister's words always made me really scared of leaving, the way my parents talked about some people made me paranoid they would hate me later, but I had to stop trying to believe something I didn't. I told my parents after I left how hurtful some things they said about those who left were. They apologized and realized it was a very awful thing to do. My sister never stopped, and they don't approve of her words.
Some of the things my parents said about ex witnesses (that we mutually did know) were true, but they left for reasons that were wrong, but they still aren't nice things to say.
I am very open minded and that's why I'm here. I have some interesting philosophies and ways of seeing things. I might not agree for the sake of perspective once in awhile, but you can always be sure my opinion is 100% mine, and I more than want to hear yours -
steve2
Ex Nihilo,
I may not agree with what you say, but I can still say, Welcome!
Just one response to your thoughtful post: Please don't assume that because some of us express ourselves strongly that we hate the Witnesses. I do not hate the Witnesses. I view most of them as neither better nor worse than any other humans beings. I may question their policies and I may hold the Watchtower Society accountable for its enormous influence over people's lives. However, ultimately, I also accept that people are free to make up their own minds about what is and is not "truth".
Please do take the time to look through the various posts: You will see there is a huge variety of contributors.
It is good that you have posted here. It is not an easy ride because there is no organizational thought control sifting through and removing so-called "undesirable" points of view.
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tula
Acting with emotion, instead of logic,
dear mr. spock:
I see very little emotion among JW's. I once heard a lady telling the most tragic nightmare that had happened to her. And the JW's cold response was "Well, Jehovah's gonna do away with all those bad things." Not a hug or a tear or a condolence. From what I have seen, most JW's have no ability to empathize with the truly heartbroken. They are trained to see this as a vunerability and an access to push their ideas on someone.
The JW's I've known think they have cornered the market on logic and reasoning...only because their book titles say so.
"Follow the Christ"...hmmm ....but I do wonder if anything was ever said about "bearing one another's burdens"?
I see that in action here on this board.
I have never seen that in real life with any JW's I know. They tend to shrug it off. An attitude like "s*** happens, but Mighty Mouse will come to save the day...in his own time"
I have seen bad things happen even to JW's. Never have I seen them take up a "collection" or "love offering" to help someone. Why would they? Jehovah will provide. It's called Lillies of the Field School of Finance".