The "WHATEVER!!!" List. (Opinions wanted on a get-the-kids-out strategy)

by Open mind 14 Replies latest members private

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    I've mentioned the "WHATEVER!!!" LIST concept in some of my previous posts, but I'm dedicating this thread to it and I'd like any input on the pros & cons of approaching it this way.

    FYI: Family snapshot: Me & wife still very active JWs with kids. She's 99% JW loyal, with a bit of a stubborn, independent streak that is my only hope. We're both 3rd gen dubs with extended family tentacles all over the place.

    Here's the concept. (BTW, I apologize for the long-windedness, but I want you to get a real flavor for how it comes across in our home.)

    As our kids get older, questions invariably arise about the various problems, inconsistencies, doctrinal conundrums, unhealthy sacrifices and hassles of growing up in the wacked-out, nightmare world of "Watchtower Wonderland".

    The questions range from big ones like:

    Is our loving God Jehovah really going to wipe out millions of babies & toddlers at Armageddon? (Never mind those over 3 yrs old, they're gettin' what they deserve anyway. Nasty old pagan worldings! )

    To relatively minor irritations:
    Heres a couple from my daughters: Why can't I get a really, tiny-tiny, small, disrete nose stud? I think that's what they're called??? You know the kind that just look like a small diamond or ruby sitting on the outside of the nose. In our area, those are viewed as no big deal by "Satan's world" but of course are taboo in "Watchtower Wonderland" and anyone with one wouldn't get any kind of "exemplary" privileges and probably wouldn't be even allowed to give a talk on the TMS.

    or,

    Why can't girls carry a microphone? (Well, you know the microphones are actually phallic symbols and therefore only brothers can carry them. Tee hee. )

    Anyway, when things like this come up I'll usually spout the "official company line" in the most boring, non-convincing way possible. If my wife is present, I'l do a slightly better job. Then I'll pull out the "Whatever List" concept.

    "You know, if a person is honest with themselves, there are things in the Truth that are going to bug you. Maybe things you don't like or don't really agree with right now. But you have to ask yourself, am I going to walk away from the Truth over this? Or, am I going to just add it to my "Whatever!!" List? Some people, as they get older, finally decide that the list has gotten too long and that the Truth just isn't for them. But for now, just add it to the list."

    Many of you readers will recognize this as a slight variation of the "Wait on Jehovah" speech you may have been subjected to as a child. In fact, I used to call the list the "Wait on Jehovah" List. Then I started calling it the "Whatever!!" List with my oldest child. And recently, I called it the "Whatever!!" List in front of the whole family and it didn't seem to freak out my wife too badly. Although, she did mention to me later that we need to be careful not to sow seeds of rebellion and disrespect for the Organization in the kids. So I've still got to tread very lightly here.

    One thing I like about this strategy is, while it encourages open dialogue with the kids, and lets them vent, I think it's still pretty safe from Borg scrutiny. While I wouldn't want to shout it from the rooftops, I think it could pass the scrutiny of Gestapo elders if it ever got back to them. I could just say I'm being a good dub-Dad and training my kids to "Wait on Jehovah".

    So, what do you think? I'd like opinions on the whole "Whatever!" List concept. Pros. Cons. Additions. Deletions. Cautions. Whatever you've got, throw it out there.

    Thanks,

    Open Mind

  • carla
    carla

    Why don't you tell the kids the truth? Wifey can't really complain unless she can prove otherwise, 'my dear child, there is no scriptural reason not to do x, y, or z. These are rules handed down by the governing body'. If you leave it at that the wife really can't accuse you of being apostate. Or sometimes a 'I dunno' with that very slight edge in your voice detectable only to teenage girls will speak volumes as well.

  • ex-nj-jw
    ex-nj-jw

    I think carla is onto something!!!!

    Then you won't be viewed as a hypocrite by your children when they do find out the truth is a lie!!!!

    nj

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Carla: Thanks for the quick response. I do (usually) tell the kids the truth. For example, with regard to beards, I've used your words exactly. "There no scriptural reason" for no beards. It's a regional imposing of the BOE's conscience on the rest of the congregation. I don't like it. But, I'm not leaving the truth over it. It goes on my "WHATEVER!!" List.

    I can't be quite so open on black and white issues of doctrine. I have to be a little more careful or wifey will think I'm apostate.

    Open Mind

  • Jez
    Jez

    I don't blame you for using this coping strategy. Love them unconditionally, encourage an open mind, encourage questioning, ie. When you hear something or read something in the WT, ask outloud to yourself, 'hmmm, I wonder where they got that quote/information from? I'll have to research that.' and do not let them get baptized until they are at least Jesus' age when he was baptized. He did, after all, set the example.

    Jez

  • DJK
    DJK

    I think your kid's are showing THE big sign here. When they turn 18, it's no more JW for them. I recognize that from MY early years.

    I get the feeling you are just keeping the peace and trying to go with the flow for your wife and kid's. There's alway's a light at the end of the tunnel, by keeping the peace, it won't be a train.

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu
    I think your kid's are showing THE big sign here. When they turn 18, it's no more JW for them. I recognize that from MY early years.

    I agree. They're thinking on their own. Especially with the nose-stud thing. You know what I'd do in that situation? I'd say "You know what? You're right! Let's go get you one." The rest would work itself out. The shunning from other JW members, the guilt trips of "You really like that nose stud, don't you?" would REALLY show themselves.

  • Scully
    Scully

    Since both you and your wife are 3rd generation JWs, I think you both have valuable experience when it comes to their education beyond the required schooling.

    I'm sure you both recognize that having skills, experience, expertise and credentials go a long way in ensuring a measure of security in your kids' futures. I would definitely (a) discourage their getting baptized before they reach adulthood, (b) not discourage any desire they have to further their educations. In fact, get them thinking about career choices now - before they get infected with the pioneering virus... which leads to the JW boyfriend... the pressure to get married early... etc etc.

    Talk with them about how there are good people everywhere - it's not a quality exclusive to JWs. I used to hate how paranoid the WTS made me of people who were not JWs - paranoid to the point of isolating myself from my peer group at school - not in a snobby way - I was truly terrified of them because of what the WTS wanted me to believe about Worldly Peopleā„¢. If they have friends outside the JWs, it will go a long way in helping them see that "normal" people aren't all that bad.

  • sass_my_frass
    sass_my_frass

    The list is a great idea. Try to make it actually physically happen, so that they can get a concept of how long their list is getting.

    I also think you should let daughter get the nose stud: the appalling way she will be treated will be all she needs to cut herself off from the congregation emotionally. I guess you just have to get it past Mrs OpenMind... I dunno, maybe play the head of the house card? Say you're caving on the little things because they're not the important ones?

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Got my 13 yo son out!

    I think that's my proudest accomplishment in life.

    Nvr

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