WTS SAYS ELDERS SINS DON'T COUNT!

by Amazing 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Sometime ago I posted a discussion on H20 about the Nov. 1991 Kingdom Ministry School for Elders / MS held at Woodburn, Oregon. During that school session the CO stated that Elders who commit a serious sin, even a gross sin, did not have to be removed IF the event took place two or three years prior, and the Elder continued to be respected, giving evidence of Jehovah’s blessing. The CO stipulated that this only applied to Elders and MS and not to regular Publishers. He cited an older Kingdom Ministry, but I was never able to find it. Now, I have it, and it applies specifically to Elders.

    I have added bloding and made comments in blue Here it is in its full text:

    Kingdom Ministry, October 1972, Page 8, Question Box:

    What is meant by “some years ago” on page 170, paragraph two, in the “organization” book?

    This indicates more than a year or two. It may be noted that it did not say “many years ago.” So it is not an exact number of years, but more like two or three years. It was not intended to have a brother go back into the distant past to bring up wrongs of which he repented years ago and that have evidently been forgiven by Jehovah and are not being practiced now. In many cases the wrongs occurred prior to the time when the “watchtower” drew attention to what the Scriptures say on such misconduct.

    Note that “many cases’ are about conducts that the Society did not draw attention to, BUT, not ALL cases, and therefore, it could be a well understood serious sin. But, the important factor is that two or three years pass without repeating the conduct, and that the Elder is giving “evidence” that Jehovah forgave him, likely selling lots of magazines, giving talks, attending meetings, and commenting.

    If a brother has been serving faithfully for some years and has seen evidence of Jehovah’s blessings upon him, why should he now step down from office? If he has a right viewpoint now on conduct and will give good counsel he should be able to continue to serve. If the local body of elders see that he has the respect of the congregation and has shown the proper qualifications over the last two or three years, he may remain in his position of service.

    Note that all a brother has to do after he commits an act of adultery, or murder, or pedophilia, he simply holds out for three years, give good counsel, and by hiding the sin he can keep the respect of the congregation, then like magic, he can continue to serve. Is this an extreme application on my part of what the Society wrote? No, because of three things, 1) The Society did not really stipulate the "nature" of the sin, 2) The Society published the now famous letter to the Elders regarding the Florida case where they told the Elders they are not to turn the brother into the authorities for his act of murder, and 3) By the fact that such people, even pedophiles have continued to serve as Elders.

    Must wrongdoing be brought to public attention after many years? The book (page 168) under “Public Reproof” quotes 1 Timothy 5:20 and mentions reproof of those who confess to committing more than one offense. But it really has to do with recent events. The “Interlinear” refers to those “sinning,” something going on at the time. So if repentance occurred some years ago, three years ago or more, and sinning ceased, and he is respected by the congregation, it is not necessary now to publicly reprove one who committed more than one offense “some years ago.”

    So, the trick for an Elder is, if you steal, smoke, puff a joint, have sex outside marriage, or some other forbidden act, even more than once, all you have to do is hide the fact, don’t confess it, just tell Jehovah you are sorry, and then look over your shoulder two, or better yet three years. Once the Watch Tower statute of limitations has passed, you are off the hook and can remain an Elder or MS. It is as simple as that. But, I imagine that even a regular Publisher and JW women can do this too. Just do it, but don’t tell, and all will be forgiven. You will not be disfellowshipped or even publicly reproved. Now isn’t that fascinating?

    I have seen a number of Elders and MSs feel guilty for a single act from a few years earlier, even as simple as masturbation, then confess, and be removed. So, if these men had only done their homework, keeping up on the fine spiritual provisions from the FDS, such as this KM, they could have saved themselves all that trouble, and continued on as Elders and MSs.

    The KM School in 1991 emphasized this article with the addition that because too many Elders and MS were being removed when the Society felt that they needed these men because they are running low on men to fill positions of service.

    - Amazing

  • Bendrr
    Bendrr

    maybe one day when they start running out of publishers, they'll apply the same statute of limitations to them too.
    who knows, maybe one day disfellowshipping will end up being for terms of months or years instead of indefinitely.
    not making light of your post, Amazing. it just brought these thoughts to mind.
    mike.

    Expect nothing and you will never be disappointed,

  • AmazingProgeny
    AmazingProgeny

    It amazes me that JWs can see this and still want to be a part of the WTS. I'm thinking specifically of ELF and RLF. Considering what the elders did to J, it seems sad that they would want to continue being JWs. I hope they realize what they are supporting.

    AP

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    Thanks, Amazing!

    Does anybody else remember a Watchtower study article in the last year or two which talked about the elders -- probably as a "place of refreshment" or some such -- which also made the point that even should a publisher have evidence that an elder was guilty of wrongdoing, that publisher should

    a/ ask him/herself if s/he is really certain that the wrongdoing took place? and
    b/ ask him/herself if it is really up to the publisher to try to put things in motion to have the matter corrected -- with the implication that JEHOVAH will resolve it the way He wants, in His own time?

    This really frosted me at the time. I remember being insulted that a publisher wasn't expected to be able to discern right from wrong!

    And I remember talking to a friend of mine and bringing up pedophilia as the perfect example of why this line of reasoning was just wrong, wrong, wrong! One would want to do everything possible to make sure that an elder-pedophile was removed IMMEDIATELY as he would pose a danger to others.

    Although this friend was a silentlamb herself, she thought I was overreacting.

    Wonder what she'd think of this?

    outnfree

  • Cautious
    Cautious
    Note that all a brother has to do after he commits an act of adultery, or murder, or pedophilia, he simply holds out for three years, give good counsel, and by hiding the sin he can keep the respect of the congregation, then like magic, he can continue to serve

    A good summation of the evidence, IMO. It sounds like any other patriachal "old boys club" to me - all looking after each other and the riff raff treated like peons.

  • esther
    esther

    Amazing, you said

    The KM School in 1991 emphasized this article with the addition that because too many Elders and MS were being removed when the Society felt that they needed these men because they are running low on men to fill positions of service

    These are the men who are supposed to be a hiding place from a storm and a refreshement for the R & F

    Now that there is a bit of an exodus and they are losing R&F, I wonder if this article will be applied to them?

    So much for God's clean organisation.

    Huh, what a corrupt society

    BTW Amazing, did you post Justice #15 – Molesters Under Every Rock!?
    If so, I must have missed it, and would be grateful if you could give me the thread.

    esther

  • Sue
    Sue

    During that school session the CO stated that
    Elders who commit a serious sin, even a gross sin, did not have to be removed

    I am sure this is a private view and not the WTS viewpoint.
    Many folks have private views - you do too!
    Or it has been misquoted.
    Mistakes can be made by only listening and not hearing.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Sue, please reread until you understand why your post would cause one to believe you have low reading comprehension.

  • zev
    zev

    maybe this is the reason child molesters go unpunished an continue to serve in full capacity in the congregations.

    while STILL molesting childern.

    and this they call, having gods holy spirit?

    i think, NOT!

    Gramps
    __
    zev
    Now feeling the pain of sitting on the pickets class.

  • Francois
    Francois

    I've been out for so long I'm not up on the latest stuff, and besides I've had a life for the last 25 years or so! I'm trying to figure out what's behind what you all are talking about.

    Sounds like elders are being protected from anything and everything; both civil & criminal law violations and violations of scriptural principles. This would not have stood when I was a Dub.

    For instance, there was a brother, an elder, nice guy and well-liked in the congregation who as kiting checks. And he was brought to a meeting of his elder buddies who dealt with him on the issue. He'd also borrow money and have a helluva time paying it back. It was sad to watch. Finally he was put on announced probation and later got his shit together. But it sounds like today nothing at all would be done. What is that all about?

    His case was sad, too. He had owned a huge Ford dealership as a younger man, but had sold it in a very bad deal becaused the "end" was coming soon, and he ran a delapidated little used car lot for a living - such as it was. Sad.

    Anyway, what's up with the elder/ms protection racket?

    Francois

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