Jehovah does NOT Communicate with the Watchtower Society!

by UnDisfellowshipped 36 Replies latest jw friends

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    New Light!!??!! (Or just more Theocratic Warfare Strategy? Or what the heck are they saying now?)

    The Watchtower Society finally admits that God does NOT communicate directly with them!?!?!

    The Watchtower, May 1, 2004 Issue, Page 11, Paragraph 15:

    "Jehovah does not communicate directly with anyone today."
    _______________________________________

    The Watchtower, August 1, 2002 Issue, Pages 14 and 22:

    "Although no organization directed by humans can be perfect, we are delighted to be able to serve God in the company of faithful fellow believers, who gladly submit to godly authority!"
    _______________________________________

    Quote from J.R. Brown (May 9th, 2002):

    "please do not conclude that we believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on child abuse."
    ________________________________________________________

    You can all definitely use that brand-new Quote AGAINST the Jehovah's Witnesses!

    Just show this quote to a JW, and then ask them: "Can you explain exactly how Jehovah communicates with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave"?

    All Jehovah's Witnesses should compare that new quote with the "Old Light" below.

    The Society even encourages JW's to read all of the older publications:

    The Watchtower May 15th 1957 Issue, Pages 313 to 315:

    Appreciating Basic Christian Publications

    ....Their zeal for knowledge may even prompt them to dig back into things that were published long before they came into the truth, expanding and deepening their understanding, and ever growing in Christian maturity.... Do you dig out older publications to expand and deepen your knowledge on subjects about which questions arise? Have you really studied these earlier publications?... How is your background of knowledge? .... Never think: "Oh, I know most of that." For you will find, indeed, that you do not and that you will be strengthened by your additional study...once you have completed your study of them you can then look to even older publications.... Only by studying earlier publications and digging back through previous issues of The Watchtower kept in the library at your local Kingdom Hall. There is much in the way of spiritual riches and aids toward mature knowledge in these earlier publications, and their study is most certainly worth your time.
    ______________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, January 1, 1942 Issue, Page 5:

    God uses The Watchtower to communicate to his people: it does not consist of men's opinions_____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower January 15th 1959 Issue, Pages 39 to 41:

    Whom has God actually used as his prophet? [...] Jehovah's witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. [...] It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, June 15, 1957 Issue, Page 370:

    Respond to the directions of the organization as you would the voice of God_____________________________________________________

    Qualified to be Ministers Book (Published in 1955), Page 156:

    If we have love for Jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall, as the Bible says, 'Believe all things,' all the things that the Watchtower brings out, in as much as it has been faithful in giving us knowledge of God's purposes....
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, June 1, 1955 Issue, Page 333:

    ....today the power of appointment of all servants in congregations rightfully rests with the governing body of the "faithful and discreet slave" class, which is under the direct supervision of Christ Jesus at the temple.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, November 1, 1956 Issue, Page 666:

    Who controls the organization, who directs it? Who is at the head? A man? A group of men? A clergy class? A pope? A hierarchy? A council? No, none of these. How is that possible? In any organization is it not necessary that there be a directing head or policy-making part that controls or guides the organization? Yes. Is the living God, Jehovah, the Director of the theocratic Christian organization? Yes! _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower August 1st, 1998 Issue, Page 24:

    "As I look back over my lifetime in Jehovah's service, I can see that Jehovah is the one who is running this organization - not men."
    _________________________________________________________________

    The Watchtower July 15th 1960 Issue, Pages 438-439:

    The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the "slave" class has served as God's sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. Just as the early Christian congregation collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth, so in our time. (Eph. 3:10) Abundant spiritual food and amazing details as to the doing of God's will have been flowing through this unique channel actually as a miraculous evidence of the operation of holy spirit.
    ____________________________________________

    The Watchtower May 1st 1964 Issue, Pages 277-278:

    It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant Scriptural counsel to his people
    _________________________________________________________

    The Watchtower April 1st 1972 Issue, Page 200:

    Jehovah's Witnesses today make their declaration of the good news of the Kingdom under angelic direction and support [...] the nations will see the fulfillment of what these witnesses say as directed from the heaven
    _________________________________________________________

    The Watchtower December 1st 1981 Issue, Page 27:

    Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones [...] Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.______________________________________________

    The Watchtower April 1st 1919 Issue, Page 6414:

    "....Is not the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?"_____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, October 1, 1967 Issue, Page 587:

    ....the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization in mind.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, September 15, 1989 Issue, Page 23:

    "In the world, there is a tendency to reject leadership. As one lecturer said: ;'The rising education level has improved the talent pool such that followers have become so critical that they are almost impossible to lead.' But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God's organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us."__________________________________________________________________________

    "Light" Book Volume 1 (1930):

    Page 64:

    "The Lord used The Watchtower to announce these truths. Doubtless he used his invisible deputies to have much to do with it"

    Page 106:

    "Visible human creatures had to do with that message, yet, in fact, it was a message of the Lord sent through his invisible angels, because without a doubt these are clothed with authority to direct the course of earthly members of God's organization".

    Page 120:

    "Again God put in the the mind of his people, by his angel, to act and carry out his purposes"

    Page 218:

    "Again the Lord sent his angel to carry out matters of great importance as pertaining to his people on earth. He caused his representatives or deputies, who are invisible to men, to direct what should be done by his visible servants on the earth. This is further proof of the completeness with which Jehovah keeps his hand in all his work"

    "Light" Book Volume 2 (1930):

    Page 12:

    "Doubtless the Lord uses these holy angels to direct the course of his people on earth; what they shall take and what they shall do. The angels are a part of God's organization...."

    Page 20:

    "....the servant class on earth are directed by the Lord through his duly constituted deputies or angels."

    Page 250:

    "....the heavenly messengers or angels of the Lord now used by the Lord in behalf of the remnant. These angels are invisible to human eyes and are there to carry out the orders of the Lord. No doubt they first hear the instruction which the Lord issues to his remnant and then these invisible messengers pass such instructions to the remnant"
    __________________________________________________

    The Watchtower August 1st 1930 Issue, Page 239:

    "The Watchtower is the channel which Jehovah, our God, is using at this time to in the faithful remnant who are keeping the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
    ___________________________________________________

    The Watchtower September 1st 1930 Issue, Page 203:

    "But it seems certain that when Jesus came to his temple and began his work of judgment he would direct his holy angels to take the necessary action to cause the separation of the disapproved from the approved ones, and would use his angels to bear messages to them to direct the approved ones as to what to do."
    ___________________________________________________

    The Watchtower June 1st 1931 Issue, Page 160:

    "Jehovah God has made known to his anointed ones in advance what these scriptures mean."
    ___________________________________________________

    The Watchtower November 1st 1931 Issue, Page 327:

    "The Watchtower is not the instrument of a man or any set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower."
    ______________________________________________________

    The Watchtower April 1st 1932 Issue, Page 101:

    "To the whole series of messages of truth which he gave and which he continues to give ever since the lighting have been flashing from the temple and upon the record of his word. The expression "the word", therefore includes every revelation of truth down to and including the book Vindication and whatsoever shall be revealed and published, by the Lord's grace, as long as the remnant is on earth."
    __________________________________________________

    Vindication Book Volume 3 (1932), Page 250:

    "....the heavenly messengers or angels of the Lord now used by the Lord in behalf of the remnant. These angels are invisible to human eyes and are there to carry out the orders of the Lord. No doubt they first hear the instruction which the Lord issues to his remnant and then these invisible messengers pass such instructions to the remnant"
    ___________________________________________________

    The Watchtower September 1st 1932 Issue, Page 263:

    "There cannot be a question or doubt that Jesus Christ can and does direct every division of his organization and that he can and does use his holy angels to carry into operation his orders and direct the course of the remnant on earth, regardless of the fact that the remnant cannot see these agents or ambassadors of the Lord and can have no direct or audible communication with them."
    ____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower April 1st 1933 Issue, Page 99:

    "The Lord makes clear in his due time. And he usually reveals the same to his people by having them performing something in fulfillment of the prophecy and then discloses to his faithful the meaning thereof."

    The Watchtower May 15th 1933 Issue, Pages 154-155:

    "Surely Jehovah has an organization on earth, because everything with him is done orderly. For many years he has used the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. There is but one class of people that are doing his work on earth today and these we call "the Society", acting under the direction of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society and putting forth the Watchtower publications."

    "Preparation" Book (1933):

    Page 36:

    "Certain duties and Kingdom interests have been committed by the Lord to his angels, which include the transmission of information to God's anointed people on the earth for their aid and comfort"

    Page 67:

    "....angels of the Lord at the temple are used to enlighten and comfort the anointed ones and to bring them refreshing truths. Those of the remnant being honest and true, must say. We do not know; and the Lord enlightens them, sending his angels for that very purpose"

    The Watchtower August 15th 1933 Issue, Page 247:

    "Enlightenment proceeds from Jehovah by and through Christ Jesus and is given to the faithful anointed on earth at the temple, and brings peace and consolation to them."

    The Watchtower November 1st 1933 Issue, Page 296:

    As surely as Jehovah has an organization on the earth, just so surely he is feeding the members of that organization by the hand of Christ Jesus. The facts prove that he uses the Watchtower publications to bring these truths to attention of his remnant....

    The Watchtower May 1st 1934 Issue, Page 131:

    "The Watchtower is not the teacher of God's people. The Watchtower merely brings to the attention of God's people that which he has revealed, and it is the privilege of each and every one of God's children to prove by the Word of God whether these things are from man or from the Lord."

    "Riches" Book (1936), Page 316:

    "Jehovah has made the necessary arrangements within his organization to instruct his people, and all recognize that for some years The Watchtower has been the means of communicating information to God's people. That does not mean that those that prepare the manuscript for The Watchtower are inspired, but rather it means that the Lord through his angels sees to it information is given to his people in due time...."

    "CHILDREN" Book (1941), Page 214:

    John, dear, don't you think we should have The Watchtower and study it regularly, that we might be informed of the unfolding of Jehovah's prophecies?
    ____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower May 1st 1944 Issue, Page 138:

    His remnant of faithful followers catch the glory light from the unfolding of the Holy Scriptures, which were written for our day and which Jehovah's appointed interpreter Christ Jesus explains to us.
    ____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, August 1, 1980 Issue, Page 19:

    Thus, the one who doubts to the point of becoming an apostate sets himself up as a judge. He thinks he knows better than his fellow Christians, better also than the 'faithful and discreet slave,' through whom he has learned the best part, if not all that he knows about Jehovah God and his purposes.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, June 1, 1985 Issue, Page 20:

    Although walking with confidence in Jehovah's leadership may not be easy at times...To turn away from Jehovah and his organization, to spurn the direction of the 'faithful and discreet slave,' and to rely simply on personal Bible reading and interpretation is to become like a solitary tree in a parched land.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, January 15, 1983 Issue, Page 22:

    Avoid Independent Thinking

    Avoid.... questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization.

    How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, January 15, 1983 Issue, Page 27:

    ....some who point out that the organization has had to make some adjustments before, and so they argue: "This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe." This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous?

    Fight against independent thinking.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, September 15, 2002 Issue, Pages 16-18:

    Rather than being critical, let us maintain a spiritually healthy view of the information received through personal study and congregation meetings.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, October 1, 2002 Issue, Page 16:

    Strong faith, in turn, fortifies us to obey Jehovah, even when his requirements seem to go contrary to human reasoning.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, October 1, 1967 Issue, Page 590:

    ....[Jehovah's Witnesses] must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, May 1, 1957 Issue, Page 274:

    We must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our Mother.

    Pages 283-285:

    Showing respect for Jehovah's organization really resolves itself down to our attitude toward God's visible channel and the trust that we place in our proved, faithful brothers. If we have become thoroughly convinced that this is Jehovah's organization, that he is guiding and directing his people, then we shall not be unsettled by anything that happens.

    We will not 'forsake our mother's teaching' by immediately beginning to criticize and find fault....

    ....gratefully and willingly show our respect for Jehovah's organization, for she is our mother and the beloved wife of our heavenly Father....
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, August 1, 1967 Issue, Pages 469-470:

    It is true that some points are difficult to grasp at first, but instead of complaining or arguing about them.... it may be better to leave it alone for a while, waiting further clarification....

    ....we must avoid complaining even about small things....
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, February 1, 1952 Issue, Pages 79-80:

    If we do not see a point at first we should keep trying to grasp it, rather than opposing and rejecting it and presumptuously taking the position that we are more likely to be right than the discreet slave.

    We should meekly go along with the Lord's theocratic organization and wait for further clarification....
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, March 15, 1986 Issue, Page 17:

    Beware of those who try to put forward their own contrary opinions.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, July 1, 1994 Issue, Pages 12-13:

    As loyal servants of Jehovah, why would we even want to peek at the propaganda put out by rejecters of Jehovah's table....
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, August 1, 1960 Issue, Page 474:

    Jehovah's witnesses, though international, are 'one heart and soul,' of the 'same mind' and the 'same line of though.'
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, June 1, 1967 Issue, Page 338:

    ....in Jehovah's organization it is not necessary to spend a lot of time and energy in research, for there are brothers in the organization who are assigned to that very thing....
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, August 1, 1972 Issue, Page 458:

    ....the Watchtower study conductor, who presides over this meeting, has an important responsibility. This study enables all to be united in the same line of thought.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, March 15, 1986 Issue, Page 12:

    Do you wisely destroy apostate material?

    Page 14:

    Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, April 1, 1986 Issue, Pages 30-31:

    Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses. What do such beliefs include? [...] That there is a "faithful and discreet slave" upon earth today 'entrusted with all of Jesus' earthly interests,' which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. [...]
    _____________________________________________________

  • ignorance is strength
    ignorance is strength

    Good job researching, but I feel that its kind of useless to bring it up with JWs because they are quite illogical with their apostate logic errors. It does, however, confirm our non-faith in the GB, FS, and the WTBTS

  • Gadget
    Gadget
    "Jehovah does not communicate directly with anyone today."

    I wonder if they will continue to refer to themselves as 'Gods Spirit-Annointed Organisation then'.

    And what about any new light that comes out in the future? If they are not communicating with Jehovah any new light that is released cannot possibley originate from his holy spirit and so must be the teachings of men and apostate.

  • zigthink
    zigthink

    All their light has just about gone out. Its hidden under a bushel. They ran out of oil. Dont expect to see much new light radiating out of the pages of the WatchTower.

  • neyank
    neyank

    There goes their claim of being Gods mouthpiece.

    Their claim of the elders being being ordained by Holy Spirit.

    Their claim that changes in their teachings is due to 'new light' from God.

    Their claim that if a person is not part of the WTS they will be snuffed out.

    Actually any claims that have been made this 'human orginization' (in their own words even.) must be thrown out the window.

    Will the die hard dub even understand what the WTS is saying with this?

    Probably not. But any potential new studies might be more apt to tell them thanks but no thanks.

    neyank

  • glitter
    glitter

    I can't believe they actually said something stupid like this... most JWs think things are run by God don't they (except when there's something wrong when it's "imperfect humans" and therefore not their fault...)? Wouldn't it be beneficial for the WT to let them carry on believing that? The JWs will just say "well of course Jehovah isn't communicating with anyone today, it's enough that the organisation was chosen as God's organization in the past"

    I can't wait for the elder who brings my mum's mags to come so I can show her this.

    /me dons tin-foil hat - it sort of seems like they're wondering how far they can push it with outrageous statements (basically saying they *aren't* God's organization), toying with the brainwashed dubs to see how far they'll blindly follow. Does the GB truly believe all this?!

    Edited to add: Undisfellowshipped - can you post scans?

  • Richie
    Richie

    Since the Watchtower currently rejects many of the teachings of its founder, Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject many of the teachings of "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916-1942, how can you be sure that in 25 more years, the WTS won't reject many of the teachings under the current president (Milton Henschel died recently, so I do not know the name of the new president today), as they did Russell and Rutherford? What kind of confidence can you have in an organization that rejected many of the teachings of its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence - over 50% of the time they have existed?!

    Since the WTS has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their views on this, does this mean that all the former Witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted back into fellowship again? Were these ex-Witnesses in fact disfellowshipped for what is now taught as "the Truth"?

    It's so clear and understood that God does NOT Communicate with the Watchtower Society, in fact it is Satan who directs his organization, the Watchtower Organization!

    Richie :*)

  • galaxy7
    galaxy7

    Very informative post thankyou

    If we do not see a point at first we should keep trying to grasp it, rather than opposing and rejecting it and presumptuously taking the position that we are more likely to be right than the discreet slave

    that has always been my problem. I dont believe anything they say

    I believe I am right and they are wrong

    I dont believe in 607BCE

  • Richie
    Richie

    You're right Galaxy! In fact, The Watchtower claims that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E. and uses Dan 4:23-25, Rev 12:6, 14, Num 14:34, and Ezek 4:6 to come up with 1914 C.E., which is 2,520 years later, as the year that Jesus began his reign in heaven. If the Watchtower's claim that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E. is correct, then why is it that every reference source, including the Encyclopedia Britannica, Microsoft Encarta, The World Book Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Americana, Compton?s Encyclopedia, Acedemic American Encyclopedia, Cambridge Ancient History ? Vol. III, The Oxford Dictionary of World History, etc, etc, all state that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 BC? If the Watchtower is correct that Christ?s reign in heaven started 2,520 years after the destruction of Jerusalem, shouldn?t this event have occurred in 1935 instead of 1914? Should we view the overwhelming opinion of essentially every historian who is an expert on ancient history, or the WTS, as unreliable?

    Richie :*)

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    : "Jehovah does not communicate directly with anyone today."

    Actually, this is just a clever smoke screen, since they never defined the term "directly." It's sorta like Clinton using his own definition of "sex" when he was interrogated in the Monica Lewinsky scandal. The WTS has always used a flimsy argument in trying to imply there is a difference between being "spirit-directed" and directly "inspired" by God.

    Note that they also didn't define the term "communicate." If cornered with this statement, they could say, "In ancient times Jehovah communicated with his prophets by speaking to them directly. Jehovah doesn't do that any more." Also, they could state, "But this does not imply that Jehovah isn't using his modern day FDS to dispense spiritual food at the proper time."

    Despite a few wacky exceptions from Rutherford, and Franz, the WTS doesn't dare come out and say they are divinely inspired in a manner like the ancient prophets and Bible writers were. They couldn't do that because they've changed their minds on so many doctrines and policies. Their lie of claiming direct divine inspiration would be exposed in such a case.

    On the otherhand, they need a way to keep convincing their membership dependent upon their absolute spiritual authority. This is why they use terms like "spirit-directed" which they also fail to define. When confronted with the task of defining the difference between the terms "spirit-directed" and "inspired," they make up some gibberish and hope the gullible will continue to believe them and stay under their absolute authority. They want all the glory and power of being prophets of God, but none of the responsibility placed upon true prophets.

    Statements like the one above in the May, 2004 WT serve a dual purpose for the WTS, and I would bet money that statement was carefuly composed, word-for-word. When they get in trouble with their policies and doctrines, they can point to it and say, "See? We don't claim to be directly communicating with God." When confronted with the contradiction between that statement above and statements made earlier, they can say, "God doesn't talk to us directly, but he invisibly guides us and uses us to carry out his work over Christ's flock."

    In short summary: it's all bullshit, and nothing has changed.

    Farkel

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