WTB&TS As Moral Compass

by Francois 20 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Francois

  Incredible Tale of Jaw-Dropping, Eye-Popping Dishonesty from the Borg!

  My father, who continues to be in the Borg, managed the construction of one of those 48-Hour Wonders several years ago. Just a few months later, someone had a "Welcome to the Neighborhood Bonfire" um, using the new KH as the bonfire.

  The new hall was, of course, insured and application was duly made for payment so that another soaring, magnificent testament to man's spiritual longing could be constructed.

  Well. The insurance company - recommended by Borg Central - filed notification that they intended to pay only for the construction material lost in the fire; you know, the lumber, the carpets, the seats, roofing materials, nails, plumbing...you get the picture.

  This was based on the fact that the labor that went into the KH was free. The insurance payment in that case would not have been adequate to reconstruct. And naturally, that's just not the way insurance works. But the insurance company held firm.

  "Our hands are tied," the insurance rep said, "Our co-insurer won't hear of paying the fair market value of your structure because your labor was free."

  Even when it was explained that the congregation couldn't face another 48 hour building project, and intended to use standard construction methods, the co-insurer wouldn't budge.

  Now my father, who is nothing if not bull-dogish in his approach to damn-near everything, started digging - determined to get to the "bottom" of this outrageous situation.

  He got to the bottom alright, where I'm sure you've all arrived ahead of me. Right. The co-insurer was the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. And they never did budge from their position that the labor that went into the construction of the KH was free, therefore they were under no obligation to pay. And didn't.

  Is any other evidence needed to illustrate how much the Borg values the ordinary, garden variety, over-worked average publisher and all who worked their butts into the ground to get a KH constructed? And how much the Borg values ethics, moral, and plain old honesty when the chips are down?

  Other stories like this?

  Francois
• 

  Stephanus

  Have any of these Bethel bastards ever gotten out among real R&F dubs and found out how tough they really do it???
• 

  JT

  DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  EXCELLENT POST THIS ONE GOES TO TH FILES

  JAMES
• 

  Liberty

  As I recall the entire Kingdom Hall building thing is a Society scam from day one. First they give the local congregation a loan with interest to build with. All us JWs come out and build the thing for free then the Society has another fleecing station to generate more slave labor recruitment, mag and book sales , and best of all contributions. The best is yet to come however, when this congregation must pay back the building loan with interest and then sign over the ownership back to the Watch Tower Society when it's all paid for. To add insult to injury, and this really pushed my Dad over the edge into complete inactivity, the Society had preached for years that we as JWs couldn't sell things to "Christendom" that we knew would be used to for "false worship" because we would be blood guilty in Jehovah's eyes. My Dad worked for a super market and had been criticized for being part of the process of selling trees later used by "evil pagans" for Christmas celebrations and holiday fruit baskets used as gifts, and Easter and Valentine's flowers etc. Well as our congregation shrank in the late 70's and early 80's the Society decided that it wasn't economicaly feasable to have two Kingdom Halls in our town any more so they took two shrinking congregations and combined them into one Kingdom Hall which wasn't ours. So the Society then sold our Kingdom Hall which we had built and cared for all those years and sold it to,you guessed it, a Baptist church. If that's not selling something to Christendom for direct "false worship" and contributing to the "damnation" of 100s then I don't know what is. My Dad was furious, how, he said, was it wrong to sell raw undecorated trees and fruit to people who MIGHT use them for a "pagan" holiday but it's ok to sell a building to a church when you know what it will be used for. The answer, of coarse, is that the Society wanted the money and it wanted it now so that made it ok. I have gone to "worldly" churches since leaving the JWs and each of their congregations own their own buildings and pay interest to a bank. Most national councils don't see their buildings as get-rich-real-estate schemes but as places of worship, unlike the mighty Watch Tower Society.
• 

  LDH

  insurer was the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society

  Now Francois, I'm not one to doubt the evil empire of the WTBS. However, I'm a little suspicious of the above. In order for the WTBS to function as any type of insurerer, They'd have to have a license in the state they plan to underwrite in.

  That being the case, their insurance ratings and financials would be on public record and could be viewed by the general public in such reference books as Standard and Poor's, A M Best's and Moody's compendiums. (Anyone in the insurance industry knows what I'm talking about.)

  So if you could please provide the city and state where this occurred I will take it upon myself to contact that state's Department of Insurance or Insurance Commissioner directly to inquire as to the status of WBTS as Co-Insurer or Underwriter on any project.

  You even have to have state's approval to be 'self-insured'.

  I'm really curious--thanks.

  Lisa

  ps it wouldn't surprise me one damn bit to find out they're in the insurance industry too. I just like to have particulars.
• 

  Had Enough

  Hello all:

  I, too, would like to know how you go about finding out who are the insurers and co-insurers of the KHs.

  ***And would someone know if these same procedures of the WTS being the co-insurer, are followed in Canada, and for that matter, all over the world?

  As for the selling of the KH to another religious order, that same thing happened to us. We were told our KH was to be sold and we were to share a nearby hall and we were told that we were to vote on it that night and that actually it didn't matter what the vote showed, as it was "just a formality, the decision was already made."

  That caused a real uproar and there are those who still sting from that "bitter pill" and the surrounding neighbours themselves found it difficult to understand why we would sell our KH to another religion. Even they could see the hypocrisy in that move.

  To Francoise:
  This is a very interesting situation and smacks loudly of more deceit and money-grubbing.

  In order to relay this as an example of underhandedness of the WTS, I know that the ones in my family would only settle for exact facts and cities named. If it is possible to go further with your information, could you please tell us the city and/or cong. involved?

  Thanks
  Had Enough
• 

  Francois

  LDH - you think I'm making this up out of whole cloth? You have doubts that the WTB&TS - which runs a used car agency, a real estate empire, a full-blown farm, a huge printing enterprise, a world-wide proganda agency using volunteer labor, and claims not only to be the only true interpreter of scripture, but actually talks directly to God - is incapable of being involved in using a front organization in a money-making insurance dodge of some sort? Doesn't what I describe sound like standard insurance loss control to you?

  The situation I described happened in the state of Georgia in about 1983 or so, but you're wasting your time. I don't think the JWs directly own an insurance company or have a state license. The very reason it took awhile to discover the Borg was involved in the first place was because there was a front organization, a dummy corporation, financed by the Borg involved in this co-insurance, or re-insurance, scheme.

  But, hey, if you want to attempt to investigate this little scam, knock yourself out. I do think you should get your evidence assembled before you imply that someone - who was an eyewitness to the events described - is exaggerating, or lying. Not too bright of you.
• 

  mustang

  Interesting.

  #1: The hypocrisy. Considering how the building is constructed, WHAT ELSE COULD IT BE USED FOR?!?! This should be seen coming (or at least breathing hard, LOL). It will almost HAVE to be sold to another CHURCH to make a sale. What are you going to do, restructure it for rental apartments?

  #2: LDH, yes and no on the Insurer/license. It is entirely possible to be SELF-INSURING in many instances of various business applications.
  This gets to be a sticky wicket. The self-insurer may post a bond.

  Then again, the self-insurer may simply 'imply' to whatever governing agency that requires convincing that it is able to afford any liabili-ties that arise. This avoids the high price of premiums, particularly where some risk is attached to any venture that may be ongoing.

  (BTW, many municipal governments do exactly this. Catch is, they may get shown up as having 'insufficient funds' to cover something really big. My city did!!! Very embarrassing; furlough your city employees every Friday for about 5 years!!! That made my legal attack on them quite successful. You can fight City Hall.)

  What I suspect happened here is that WTS got a regular insurance com-pany to do the basic paperwork. They stated that they would back up amounts past a certain $ amount (going surety). This gets them a dis-counted premium. Fine & dandy. They get CHEAP insurance; good book-keeping strategy.

  Short time-out for a question/thought: there are two ways to insure something. One is for the basic costing of its construction or manu-facture. The other is for a REPLACEMENT VALUE. Guess which one is cheaper? No contest, as REPLACEMENT VALUE has inflation, market appre-ciation and other costly items factored in.

  Guess which one the beloved WTS would have opted for? Again, no con-test; why the low-cost spread, of course.

  (BTW#2: has anyone ever noticed how really chintzy and Scrooge-like the WTS is?)

  Now comes the rub: time to payout. So, the basic coverage is applied via the CONVENTIONAL Insurer. Of course, this isn't enough for a re-placement KH done by CONVENTIONAL CONSTRUCTION. The request for more money goes to the Co-Insurer. The Co-Insurer refuses.

  Hmm... can 'he' do this? Yes!!! When you insure something, file a claim and receive the remuneration, the INSURER now owns it do with as it sees fit. (getting ahead of myself...)

  But what about the claimant? Well, he didn't pick the right TYPE of insurance; SORRY, tough luck Charlie, you get the small check. This happens all the time.

  Back to getting ahead of myself: WTS basically sits there owning the Real Estate w/ a large pile of charcoal on board.

  WTS also had the title signed over and ownership ceded IN THE FIRST PLACE. Got a problem w/ this? Go study Church Law. The local Dubs signed their rights AND property away a long time ago. (I have several pages of Case Law on this one. WTS has more.)

  The local Dubs are back to square one. Want a new KH? Start chipping in, but sign it over again. Set up another Quick-Build(tm). Got an objection? A Judicial Committee can take care of that.

  Again, and twofold, WTS owns the smoking ruin and elects to do the cost-effective thing: sit on it, wait for the local rebuild. Selling the property might also be considered.

  Self-serving? You betcha. Illegal? Probably not, if done carefully. And the doubtful side is covered by all the Church Law, associated covenants, fine-print and legal precedents. WTS is ultimately defensi-ble (LEGALLY) under Religious Freedom invoking 'Church Law'. Possible claimants are locked out by the same.

  LDH: on your search, the self-insurer angle will lead to mostly dead-ends. You will find nothing or everyone's hands tied to either tell you more or do anything. The paperwork could be interesting, though.

  Is WTS in the Insurance business? One way or another, yes, from the git-go. You can safely bet that WTS insured something B4 any of us were born!!! I'm willing to posit that they have self-insured most of Brooklyn for most of the 20th century.

  Confusing? Yes, but keep looking.

  DISCLAIMER(S):
  Anything that I write on this posting (and prior posting's on this and the previous H2O) is (or was) intended as an expression of both per-sonal Religious Freedom and Freedom of Speech, as guaranteed in the constitution of the United States.

  AND, I am definitely not a Loyalist Defender or Apologist

  Mustang
• 

  LDH

  Francoise,

  I am surprised that you would be so offended at my questions. It so happens that I have held a NY state insurance license together with a series 7 since the age of 19, before they raised the age to 21. I have also had EXTENSIVE experience in dealing with issues of Self-insurance administration, as well as what is required by the governing state.

  As far as what all pies the WBTS has their fingers in, I backed up what I said about the used car business by providing a PHONE NUMBER and MAILING ADDRESS that anyone could use to verify if they so chose. Since you stated your father was involved on a first hand basis, surely providing the city and state where this occurred shouldn't be that big of a deal. I volunteered to do the research involved.

  In addition the terminology of co-insurer can be confusing. In fact, co-insurance premiums are HIGHER than premiums underwritten by major companies. WHY?? Because they are accepting liability that a STANDARD insurance company would NOT, taking risks that a major insurer would not.

  You made the accusation. Therefore the onus to prove is on you.

  Mustang,

  You do not just have to 'imply' that you can cover your losses. THERE IS A MATHEMATICAL formula each state has, you must show your paperwork. You must have a certain amount of cash reserves on hand, and this must be provable. You can't just *imply* that you have enough money. And self-insurance BARELY avoid the high cost of premiums, particularly when the self-insurer also plans to outsource the administration to a third party.

  Again, for the record, perhaps the WBTS DID do all of this--I'm sure they did. But you can't just accuse them of being in the co-insurance business.

  Lisa,
  Dusting Off Her Insurance Gun class
• 

  mustang

  LDH,

  I was unsure of the formulas (or basis), so I used 'imply' (w/ quotes) to cover whatever & various method is required. And it will vary from state-state & country-country.

  WTS can easily show the cash reserves (read that prove), w/ any statement from some sub-Corporation. (Rumored to have many, approaching a 100??? Flush that one out.) Title to any large office building would suffice. (That in itself might be worth flushing out: the various ones. You might come up w/ a new one.)

  Again, municipal governments easily do this, even if they can DEFAULT. I watched several local (one VERY large) outfits do this. Throw out a balance sheet and it's yours.

  WTS gets to BANK the money they may have to lay in escrow to do this.
  Setting up a bonding company as a front would REALLY make this worthwhile. Think about that one.

  Remember WTS wants to squeeze every bit out of their dollar. Why put it into some premium that may never be called into action, when you can DO IT YOURSELF and profit more than once? (Savings PLUS Interest.) That is the thing to look for: the obvious dummy companies, fronts and holding operations. They have a MACHINE for all this. Bet they avoid any CONVENTIONAL outlay.

  If you have the Investigative means, go for it. DIG, DIG, DIG. It won't be where, what or why you think.

  I can speculate all I want to, BTW.

  Mustang

  DISCLAIMER(S):
  Anything that I write on this posting (and prior posting's on this and the previous H2O) is (or was) intended as an expression of both per-sonal Religious Freedom and Freedom of Speech, as guaranteed in the constitution of the United States.