Teej-
True. . .
thankyou Craig
by little witch 61 Replies latest jw friends
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oldcrowwoman
My impression of Refiner's apology just words and got the sense it was'nt from the . And not owning his behavior on the subject matter.
Just another dig
OC
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Lady Lee
What does not surprise me is that rf does not learn that his way of thinking crosses the line. Sexual predators rarely believe they are wrong or that there is something wrong with their way of thinking.
It is interesting that in rf's initial comments on sex and women he stated that he will wait for them to agree to meet him knowing that "their pants are coming off". So once he sees them face to face he will get sex whether they change their minds or not. I have to wonder what he would do if HE decided once he saw her that he was not interested. The way he makes it sound he has one agenda - get sex regardless. That is the issue. That he is "intructing" people in how to get sex regardless of a change of mind, lack of interest, whther the "chemistry" disappears, or even protestation and saying "no". Whether rf recognizes it or not he is advocating date rape. His most recent posts are an excellent example of how he doesn't "get it"
TJ
Offering an apology and then giving reasons why you are right recinds the apology. It makes it worthless.
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Simon
I too got the impression that the 'apology' was because it was required and not really sincere. I have trouble comprehending that people could have such extreme opinions and be so denegrading to women and think that a 'sorry' just excuses it all.
Apologies are ok but what really matters is how people behave on an ongoing basis.
There are a few people who from time to time make me feel uncomfortable with the comments they make about and towards women and I hope they will clean up their act.
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teejay
>>>>Offering an apology and then giving reasons why you are right recinds the apology. It makes it worthless.
Lady Lee,
I'm not going to rehash comments made in a thread that was locked and removed from the forum. Doing so will lead to only one conclusion for this thread.
That said, I just returned to read what RF said in *this* thread and I don't see how anyone could read it as you did -- that he was saying he was "right." I know you're still upset about the thread, but out of fairness I'm sure you'd agree that it wouldn't be right to attribute to people things they really didn't say.
RF never said that he was right, only that his comments started as a joke. Trying to be funny, he was simply passing along what he had learned about the dating scene from his own experience, whether others had similar experiences or not and/or agreed with him or not.
He owned up to his mistake of forgetting the sensibilities of his audience -- that although he's been out of the organization long enough to be over it, others are still working through the process of overcoming years of various forms of abuse.
Taking an overall look at it, I think that if he was the ogre some have tried to make him out to be, he wouldn't have come back and made any response at all. -
little witch
Teejay
I seldom post topics here, I posted this to thank C-R-A-I-G
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how unpopular,
but I would appreciate it if you didnt hijack my post.
Perhaps, you should start your own if you would like to extoll moronic behavior.
Mods, feel free to lock this one, I never meant for it to be another platform for you know who.
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teejay
>>>>>I posted this to thank C-R-A-I-G
I know, LW. You posted this. On a public discussion board. In which the discussion inevitably turned to RF. Nuff said. -
onacruse
LW, I understand your frustration.
Over this last year, thanks to this forum, I've learned more about human behavior (including my own) than in all the rest of my life put together. It's been a tremendous thrill to see that by far the majority of folks that post here are honest and honorable, sharing their pains and fears, and kindly allowing us all to participate together in their healing and growth.
On the other hand, there is a handful that regularly demonstrate incredible insensitivity and hypocrisy. When called on it, they dismiss, dissemble and endlessly carry on debate in a vain attempt to save face. Oftentimes this 'game' has carried on for many years, on many db's. As distasteful as it is to see that, nevertheless it gives the rest of us the clear evidence we need to decide for ourselves what kind of characters such people have (or don't have).
Eventually, we develop the spine to tell them off, or, better yet, simply ignore their disingenuous drivel.
Craig
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Frannie Banannie
On the other hand, there is a handful that regularly demonstrate incredible insensitivity and hypocrisy. When called on it, they dismiss, dissemble and endlessly carry on debate in a vain attempt to save face. Oftentimes this 'game' has carried on for many years, on many db's. As distasteful as it is to see that, nevertheless it gives the rest of us the clear evidence we need to decide for ourselves what kind of characters such people have (or don't have).
Eventually, we develop the spine to tell them off, or, better yet, simply ignore their disingenuous drivel.
That was so succinctly well put, Craig....Thanks a lot...
Frannie B
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teejay
Craig,
Over the past 2+ years that I have posted here, I have seen human behaviors that closely approximate human behaviors that I've witnessed my whole life. My time here has shown me nothing new. Nothing.
Of the scores of people that I've 'met' since coming online over ten years ago, almost without exception every one of them have in one way or another mirrored people and events that I've already seen in the real world countless times -- people with a wide variety of opinions and methods of expressing them. As to who is honorable and who is being dishonorable, I can only guess. One thing I will NOT do: be so narrow-minded and judgmental as to write them off simply because they are different than me, hold different opinions than mine, and express themselves in ways that I would not.
I don't place a tremendous amount of confidence in anything that goes on here or on any online discussion board and in this respect I suspect that I am quite different than you. This form of communication is so limited and so limiting that for me to do otherwise would be foolish. To trust my perceptions of people based on this forum would also limit my perspective and is counterproductive. People's opinions that I might otherwise miss out on are occasionally made by people who I initially cared little about.
There have been posters here (2 individuals come to mind) who, two years ago, I'd pretty much written off as two of the most despicable examples of humanity I'd ever run across because of some of their posts here on this very forum. Since then, my own personal honesty and open-mindedness has forced me to alter my previous assessment of both of them. Since leaving here, I have seen extraordinarily high-quality comments they've made on other forums -- not to mention an intelligent sense of humor previously missed -- and honesty forces me to acknowledge such. I will not rigidly hold to an earlier view that I know in my heart does not truly fit either of them now that I've gotten to 'know' them better. I have yet to make my peace with them, but the only thing that precludes my doing so is sufficient opportunity.
There have been still others here who I have "had words with", not seeing eye-to-eye when it came to a particular topic or thread. Seven006 (Dave) is a good example of this. For a time, feelings between us were less than civil. Yet we were both mature enough and forgiving enough to not allow this board and its silly disputes to narrow our perspective to such a degree that we closed the door to the possibility of human friendship nor to blind us to the good that truly exists in each other. I know I am better off for leaving those doors open for him and can only hope that he feels the same.
And that will be my attitude with regard to everyone, whether online or off. Including you, Craig. Life has taught me that there is good in nearly everyone and I will not refuse to heed this important lesson.
As it applies more specifically to this thread, I will continue to speak my mind as long as I am able to post here. I whole-heartedly accept the challenge to give my opinion, no matter how unpopular. Since throwing off the perception that the governing body is in a better position than me when it comes to knowing god's mind, I have come to value my opinion as much as anyone else's.
I also have little fear (none, really) in being a (the) lone dissenter. In every worthwhile society (or forum) honest dissension is good and serves a valuable purpose. For example, right now a rather slanderous post exists about the musician Lauryn Hill and some are making rather unkind comments about her based on statements she most likely didn't even make. I make it my business to speak up for her because in her shoes, I'd hope someone would speak up for me.
When Bboy formed his board, a few former posters again and again made vicious attacks against Simon and members of this board. In response, several of this board's members went there to do nothing more than to defend him and this board's membership. (Refiners Fire was one of those.) Those "defenders" were not popular there, either, and were labeled all kinds of crude names by a handful of people who despised the loyalty the "defenders" showed toward Simon and JW.com. Yet, what else could be done? If the kinds of unkind, hurtful, and vicious comments were being made about me and I was not there to defend myself, I would hope someone... SOMEONE ... would step up and say, "Hey!... Hold on. Wait a minute..."
You said:
there is a handful that regularly demonstrate incredible insensitivity
and hypocrisy. When called on it, they dismiss, dissemble and endlessly
carry on debate in a vain attempt to save face. Oftentimes this 'game' has
carried on for many years, on many db's. As distasteful as it is to see that,
nevertheless it gives the rest of us the clear evidence we need to decide
for ourselves what kind of characters such people have (or don't have).
You are free, of course, to hold that view and to even lead the charge in encouraging others to share it. Yet, try as I might, I cannot think of a single person -- let alone "a handful" -- of whom your characterization is true whatsoever. Indeed, if such a person existed, I'd suspect that they would not be allowed to post here at all. But even if there was such a person and they were allowed to post, I would refuse to let go of the sincere belief that they had something good to offer. And honesty would force me to acknowledge it when their goodness did appear.
Since my earliest days, I've long understood that not everyone thinks like me. For that, I, and I suspect the rest of the world, am so very thankful.
