Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist 173 Replies latest jw friends

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    I sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown JW. The response I got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something Christians should celebrate.

    Of course, if you're not a Bible-believer or a God-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that. But let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for Christians' vein. Please discuss it from that standpoint.

    I think it's fair that any reasoning used to knock birthdays should be evenly applied. So for instance if it is thought that celebrating birthday's brings too much attention to a single person ("creature worship"), then all such celebrations should be forbidden -- wedding anniversarys, baby showers, etc. Is that reasonable? If not, why not?

    Likewise, if a practice is to be forbidden due to its pagan origins, then other practices also linked to pagan practices should be forbidden -- wind chimes, wedding veils, pinatas, etc. Again, this is reasonable, isn't it?

    Another argument is that the Bible only records two birthdays and they are both by bad guys at which bad things happened. So, to be fair, if any other things are not specifically forbidden in the Bible, but are attributed only to bad people, we should condemn them, too. So this should forbid the use of eye makeup and dog ownership, to name only two. I would be surprised if there weren't more examples of these.

    The poster argued that birthdays were not celebrated by any servant of god in the bible, and that history shows that Christians specifically avoided celebrating theirs despite others around them doing so. I can't speak to the accuracy of that claim. It seems a foregone conclusion that we will do things today that Jesus didn't do. We speak a different language, live in a different culture, and exist in a two-milenia-removed world from Jesus and the apostles. It seems unreasonable to me to use the fact that it was 'not done by Jesus' as a reason to forbid it. But if Christians of the first-century truly did avoid them for religious and not just cultural reasons, that might give a Christian pause. (Can anybody cite a source to confirm this historical claim? The poster did not.)

    A final argument against birthday celebrations is that the Bible says to remain without spot from the world, not to follow the ways of the nations, etc. I am of the opinion that these types of scriptures are wide open to interpretation in the form of "What 'ways' are Christians to not 'follow'?" Is it ok to tell people the customary "good-bye" when they leave, even though this means "god be with you"? Would it be inappropriate to follow the custom of waving to people in greeting? How is a Christian to decide which customs are OK and which ones are forbidden by these verses?

    The poster that brought all this to my attention said, "God wants us to use our reasoning powers." The Bible does tell Christians to use their reasoning ability, so let's do that.

    Am I just bending and twisting logic and scripture to create loopholes in a clearly implicit law to avoid birthdays?

    Or have I reasoned out that the Watchtower 'goes beyond what is written' in forbidding them?

    Your thoughts?

    Dave

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait


    I want to know (Leo - she will know this answer)

    In the LXX where the book of Job says that each son held a party on "HIS DAY" where it says Job called down evil on "HIS DAY" are they the same words as used in the account of Pharoah's birthday. In the NT is it the same greek word used of Herod's party?

    Certainly in Job "my day " is used to refer to the day of his birth. In which case it is not unreasonable to assume that people did celebrate their birthday.

    In any event can anyone give a time scale for when the Jews did start celebrating them, if the WTS is to be believed on this?

    Just because birthdays are not mentioned very often does not mean they never happened. After all the bible never mentions Jesus peeing or laying a great steaming coil. Such an event would only have been noted if he had given a witness in a public privy.

    HB

  • lonelysheep
    lonelysheep
    Am I just bending and twisting logic and scripture to create loopholes in a clearly implicit law to avoid birthdays?

    Or have I reasoned out that the Watchtower 'goes beyond what is written' in forbidding them?

    Your thoughts?

    I don't think you're twisting logic at all, but instead using it to reason in a rational manner.

    Your birthday document was one of the things that made me finally join this place!

  • undercover
    undercover

    I don't have the references but there was an Awake! article on the custom of using pinatas. According to the article, pinatas had a pagan ritualistic beginning but in a footnote it was noted that it's not importat to harp on what it used to mean but how people view the custom today that is important.

    If that is the case with pinatas, why wouldn't that be the case with birthdays? What do they mean today? Is it pagan or religious? If not, why not allow it to be to each person's conscience as to whether to celebrate or not, much like the pinata is viewed?

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    The poster argued that birthdays were not celebrated by any servant of god in the bible, and that history shows that Christians specifically avoided celebrating theirs despite others around them doing so.

    May we have the reference for this statement?

  • Cordelia
    Cordelia

    was it you that did that good thing about birthdays. where you spoke about eye makeup and how only two other people in the bible wore eyeshadow and they were bad people so if we're not gonna do birthdays then we should nt do eyeshadow?

    that was dead good reasoning, i would also like to know about jobs children as that reasoning would be hard to show a jw?

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee

    One of the early church fathers (was it Iraeneus or Eusebius?) was dead set against them. It was in much of his writings.

    None of the others ever spoke of it though.

    And as far as scripture? Well, everyone here will tell you that.

    DM

  • GentlyFeral
    GentlyFeral

    I think the WT misses the most obvious meaning of the Evil Birthday stories in the Bible, namely:

    These goyim were so mean they were signing death warrants at their own birthday parties!

    gently feral

  • serendipity
    serendipity

    Another argument: There were no records of the early (first century) Christian's celebrating Jesus' birthday. If they didn't even celebrate Jesus' birthday, why would a Christian celebrate his own?

    I also recall a WTS quote of a historian's comments on birthdays, but don't remember which publication I saw that in.

  • loosie
    loosie

    So we shouldn't drive cars or wear pants because Jesus didn't do those things.

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