TRUST Poll...UBM'S I'm asking you

by jgnat 30 Replies latest social relationships

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    This is the third poll in a series to the "Unbelieving Mates" (UBM's) community here on JWD. I like that the questions take time to answer well. I like that the thread takes a while to build momentum. My perspective is broadening with every answer you give. I am tickled that so many have responded that "JGNAT is so COOL" since I started asking. As usual, I'll answer the poll with my own perspective at the end so hopefully the results won't be contaminated.

    If you want the polls to continue, please give me some more topic ideas!

    1. On a scale of one to ten, one being the lowest, how do you rate the importance of trust in your relationship?

    2. One to ten, intimacy?

    3. One to ten, honesty?

    4. Does your partner trust you? Why?

    5. Do you trust your partner? Why?

    6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner?

    7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust?

    8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them?

    9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal?

    10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question)

  • Why Georgia
    Why Georgia

    1. On a scale of one to ten, one being the lowest, how do you rate the importance of trust in your relationship?

    Trust is a is more than a 10 in our relationship. I have health issues and I need to know he's there for me and the boys if I need him. I try not to need him or take advantage - but I need to know he'll respect my wishes and be available mentally and physically.

    2. One to ten, intimacy?

    I would rate this one a 6 or 7.

    3. One to ten, honesty?

    This is the most important...if I felt he lied to me about a major thing - I would probably not be able to be with him because we agreed in the beginning to be honest even if it hurts.

    4. Does your partner trust you? Why?

    My husband knows I've got his back. If someone tried to hurt him or betray him...don't watch out for him...watch out for me. He knows pretty much how I'll react in all situations and he knows my moral code.

    5. Do you trust your partner? Why?

    I trust him because he has proven himself. He says what he means and means what he says. I may not always like what he has to say but he's honest and moral.

    6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner?

    A lot of time...You've heard the sayings an Elephant never forgets...and neither does the mob..LOL! That's me..He would have to be truly repentant and not ever do the same thing again. Ever...not even think about doing it...and if I bring it up, he must be completely repentant again...and not ever say...Get over it!

    7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust?

    If he cheated on me...it'd be over or brought pornography into our home and was watching it secretly. Over. If he lied to me about something and it had to do with the WTS...over. If he went back to the Truth...over. If he started using illegal drugs...over.

    8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them?

    Yes....of course. I'll let you know when I've done that...LOL!

    9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal?

    Yes, I don't think he'll be saying that again anytime soon.

    10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question)

    Trust is a very big issue in the divided religious household. I have had 3 major surgeries and some illnesses since my husband and I have been married. I had to trust him that he would follow my instructions against his religious beliefs. That's a big thing. But in the same regard, I have to do the same if he's ever in that situation. And we were in that situation this summer. I watched him say no to blood products while having surgery. While I completely disagree with this, its his life and his decision to make.

    Also, I have to trust that he will take mine and our children's lives into consideration for all decisions he will make. This is the same in every family...but even more so in ours because it's always in the back of mine and his mind...especially with a pushy mother in law...that he may go back to the JW's.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien
    1. On a scale of one to ten, one being the lowest, how do you rate the importance of trust in your relationship?

    these days, it's still high, probably 8. i haven't really thought about it actually. i mean sure, it's important, even in platonic relationships. i trust her to look out for me when i am not around, because i do that for her when she is not around. and she knows that i would never keep a secret from her. so, like tonight, she knows it was a girl from work who invited me to the neil young tribute concert. i don't think she's pleased per se, but at least i don't sneak around, right? we told each other that we don't love each other any more, but that does not negate trust.

    2. One to ten, intimacy?

    in general, it should be high, about 9 or 10. but in my current "marriage", it is like a 5.

    3. One to ten, honesty?

    ...10 - we're good at this part, LOL.

    4. Does your partner trust you? Why?

    yes, in everything except spirituality. because i am a trust worthy guy, i guess. but with regards spirituality, she doesn't. i get the impression that she thinks i want to hurt her spirituality. but i mean, even with regards spirituality, i am a trust worthy guy. i will try to help her with JW doctrine somedays. and on other days i try to get her to think about the concept of god from outside a paradigm. neither of these ever work because she doesn't trust me. i let her down spiritually when i DA'd myself. oh well, so be it.

    5. Do you trust your partner? Why?

    yes, mostly. she is very trustworthy. she's a good person, even though she's a witnoid. but, she has been talking about kids the last couple of weeks. this has always been a non-issue for us until now. the thought of little tetrapods running around makes me queazy. so, i mean, i trust her person, that she will not vandalize the relationship that way, but i don't trust her biology, and that maternal insctinct to have a baby around now. so, this is the only area i have taken precautions becasue of a lack of trust.

    6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner?

    hmmm, never had this issue. we have never had trust or honesty issues. but ya, if it were, time and actions would be the key. it's weird though, at this point she could break my trust in certain things, and it would not seem like a break of trust. since we have agreed to split up fairly soon, it wouldn't bother me if she met another guy and slept with him. as long as he's not here when i am. actually, that would be kind of a relief for me. but i don't think it is going to happen, she is a JW, and actually remarkably strong willed for being such a sweet girl.

    7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust?

    at this point in my relationship, honestly not much apart from trying to kill me or sucker me in with a pregnancy. i honestly don't think either would happen. she was a very good wife while it lasted. but if we were still together, hmmm... ... i would have to say that my answer is still the same. even of she slept with someone else, honestly, it would not be irreparable. in my worldview, we're just animals. and animals are animals, and they have sex with each other. big deal, get over it, you know?

    8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them?

    no, we have never been in this situation. too bad we fell out of love, it was all working pretty maturely.

    9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal?

    never been here either.

    10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question)

    trust...hmmm...

    i just asked my wife if she trusts me. she said "not entirely." LOL, there goes my theory, LMAO! i asked "why?". she said, "because i know you are going through some sort of midlife crisis these days, and i don't know really what to expect from you..."

    i had to LOL because she is such a straight shooter, and because i can only imagine how she must see me in her ultra-moral and boring JW life, where i am the evil atheist who is screwing up his life and throwing caution to the wind and has a purposeless existence. which is all true, i may add. lol. but ya, i can see what she means. i have had a lot of surprises for her in the last year. and probably coming out of the closet as an atheist that had been praying to a non-existent jehovah, and closing in a non-existent jesus' name, and commenting at the book study about stuff that i thought was total BS for months and months, was a blow to her trust in me. it seems silly to me, but it's obviously not to her.

    more on trust... i guess i sort of trusted her intellectual honesty, and thought that she would leave the truth too when i did. i mean once you open your mind up to both sides of any story, it means you're being intellectually honest, and she simply is not being so. she refuses to be intellectually honest. this is big for me, and part of the reason i fell out of love with her. so she broke by trust in that way. i thought she was more robust mentally. but that's about it.

    thanks again jgnat, it's nice to get these things off my chest. i would also be interested to answer some viewpoint questions for research purposes regarding the social aspect of being an UBM. like, friends then and friends now, and how the two people in the relationship balance all that stuff, when there is shunning involved, and new worldly friends coming into the picture, and by extension the family. i don't think you have covered that?

    TS

  • TD
    TD

    1. On a scale of one to ten, one being the lowest, how do you rate the importance of trust in your relationship?

    10

    2. One to ten, intimacy?

    7

    3. One to ten, honesty?

    10

    4. Does your partner trust you? Why?

    Yes. Actions over time. --I've spent the last 25 years being trustworthy

    5. Do you trust your partner? Why?

    Yes. She's done the same

    6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner?

    I don't know. --Never had to face that one. Hypothetically, I would say it would take both, (Time + Actions) since that is how trust was built in the first place.

    7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust?

    Infidelity --There would probably be no healing from that one. (I'm pretty sure for her, it would be physical violence.)

    8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them?

    Nope

    9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal?

    Nope

    10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question)

    Nothing much. All human relationships involve trust to varying degrees. Marriage is probably one of the ultimate expressions of trust because both of you are vulnerable on so many fronts. (Physical, emotional, financial etc.)
  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I am here, reading, listening, absorbing. TRUST me, LOL, I'm listening.

  • freedomlover
    freedomlover

    Maybe it's foolish for me to answer these polls seeing as I WAS the BM for awhile, but I think there's another side of the picture that I can add to this...

    1. On a scale of one to ten, one being the lowest, how do you rate the importance of trust in your relationship? probably 8, It's hard to expect your partner to be TOTALLY trustworthy ALL the time. I mean who hasn't fibbed to their partners at least once.....?

    2. One to ten, intimacy? this would be a 10 for me. If I'm not conncecting totally at all levels of initimacy then I don't want to be there...

    3. One to ten, honesty? 10 or maybe even 11. I took a personality test recently and I scored very high in the reality/honesty areas. I'd rather be TOTAL LY honesty and then deal with the isssues at hand....

    4. Does your partner trust you? Why? Yes, I think so. I guess you'd have to ask him....

    5. Do you trust your partner? Why? Yes. He's always been trustworthy and reasonable even when we've had ups and downs.

    6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner? We had our relationship tested once in certain ways and I would have to say it was time and actions that did the healing.

    7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust? Him cheating on me physically with another woman. I could never get the mental picture out of my head. I'd be thinking in the back of my head every time we were intimate...is he thinking of HER or me right now??? All though, maybe if there were circumstances to take into consideration, I may be able to forgive even that kind of act.......I'm just not jealous and possessive. You'll be with me if you want to, and if you don't then I wish you the best.

    8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them? No

    9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal? NO! That would send me packing in a minute!

    10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question

    Trust is either there or it isn't. There are only about 2 or 3 people I trust totally in my life. I don't really know why I trust them so much, I just do.

  • damselfly
    damselfly


    I pretty sure that Jgnat is keeping track of my non-UBM status, this will be answered from my brief flirtation with being the BM. *insert eyeroll here*

    4. Does your partner trust you? Why?

    No he did not, He thought he was marrying a non witness and was not to pleased with the idea that I switched directions. He felt tricked and decieved. He retaliated by becoming emotional / verbally etc abusive towards me. This continued even when I stopped going to meetings and washed my hands of the whole organization.

    5. Do you trust your partner? Why?

    No & see above for reasons.

    6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner?

    Couldn't do it. I was betrayed by his behaivior towards me just as he felt betrayed by me. It killed our relationship.

    7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust?

    See above again. I will not tolerated being abused in my life in anyway ever again.

    8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them?

    Yes, he felt that he was right to be angry, and that I should be apologizing to him for going to meetings, even though I assured him repeatedly that I never wanted him to join it.

    9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal?

    Yes, he did. I don't believe that I ever told him that he should get over it and it was no big deal, but I can't really remember.

    10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question)

    It's interesting to see the different responses to these polls. I wonder if it's easier in some way for those couples that one became a JW post vows? Is it less of a betrayal to gain religion rather then lose it?

    Dams

    (((((Tetra))))) sorry to hear about your marriage, I feel you would liked it to all go down differently. It's good to still be honest and amicable with each other, it will make the separation and divorce proceedings go alot smoother.

  • Frog
    Frog

    Even though I know I don't really belong on this thread, I have to say what I've said before...and that is that I admire all you UBM's so very much for what you go through. I myself could have never gone through the transitional stages of leaving the org and experimenting with new trains of thought while giving maintaince to a marriage to a BM. It's difficult enough to go through all the motions of learning to let go of an unsustainable belief system without having to work on a marriage that becomes gradually more and more unsustainable because of it. When you allow yourself to become open to alternatives, it's difficult to imagine that those closest to you aren't at the same place you are with it.

    While there are a handful of partnerships amongst friends and family that I admire and respect because of what they have between eachother, I believe what what they have is a very rare thing, and shouldn't be promoted as something attainable for everyone. My honest belief is that it's unnatural for humans to choose a partner to mate for life with. We've tried to use notions of morality and ethics to bind people together exclusively and indefinitely for centuries now, but now that's all coming undone.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I wonder, Frog, if marriage is a little like buying life insurance? You can commit up front for a limited term, or buy the lifetime. In my thirties, I saw no need for lifetime insurance. Term is so much cheaper, it's so darn expensive, you are unlikely to get your investment back (in fact, you dearly hope you never have to cash in), and other investments have a much better rate of return.

    The great thing about lifetime insurance, though, is as you get older and creakier, you don't have to go for a physical to prove you still rate. I know, I just went through such an approval process, and it was very unpleasant.

    I'm an UBM by choice, my JW hubby and I married knowing we had a huge difference in opinion about religion. Let's just say there are compensating factors. My hubby's parents had the whole marriage thing figured out. When his parents escaped across the Hungarian alps, they were set upon by bandits and his mother had to give up her gold earrings. When they were settled in their refugee camp, dad walked in to town and took a job. With his first paycheque, he bought her new earrings. She still had those earrings on when she passed away, over forty years later. She never forgot what was first on his heart.

    Those two looked after each other always. Now THAT I figure is worth investing in.

  • carla
    carla

    jgnat, do you mean by the 'importance' how important is it to us, or how are things in real life? They should all be 10's and once upon a time they were all 9 & 10"s for sure!

    1. On a scale of one to ten, one being the lowest, how do you rate the importance of trust in your relationship? I don't think he knows what that means anymore to be able to completely trust someone with your entire being.

    2. One to ten, intimacy? How intimate can you be when you can't trust someone not to blab what you have to say to an elder which =entire cong.

    3. One to ten, honesty? The jw's encouraged him to sneak out of the house without my knowledge and lie about it. What does that tell you?

    4. Does your partner trust you? Why? Oops. The rest of this answer should be in honesty or elsewhere sorry. Does he trust me? No idea what he thinks on that. I think he would say no because I associate with you guys, you evil internet loving apostates!! No, there are far to many times he has lied or withheld info (see theocratic warfare) and does it in the name of God or in his case jihivi. His own children think he lies. He will say something and not less than five minutes later say he didn't say it! Too many examples to put here.

    5. Do you trust your partner? Why? No, see #3 there are times he does things and he could just be being a jerk but I associate it all with being jw

    6. What does it take for your trust to rebuild? Is it time? Certain actions of your partner? leave an org that encourages lying

    7. For you, what is the ultimate trust-breaker? That is, if your partner betrayed you on this, you could not rebuild your trust? ultimate? seems to me it's already happened

    8. Has your partner ever told you that you must adjust your attitude and forgive them?

    9. Has your partner ever diminished your feelings of betrayal, for example, saying it's not such a big deal? oh yeah!

    10. Anything else to add? (My favorite question) How can you trust someone who is taught it is ok to lie to the people you love if you use God's name to do it? How do you trust someone who has more loyalty to complete strangers than to their own spouse? Trust can be like money, it can lost but can be earned back. The earning it is hard once it is lost. I do not completely and will never completely trust him again. He has done thing I just don't know if were on advice of the hell or his own doing. These things affect my life, money, you name it. You do not make some major life change in your life without thinking of your spouse. I think it's wrong.

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