New to the forum and I need answers...................please

by DelTheFunkyHomosapien 29 Replies latest members adult

DelTheFunkyHomosapien

Stumbled upon this site after watching the second Silent lambs story on the ozzie Sunday program. This is the site I have been looking for. I have some shit to get off my chest so forgive my rant if I go over some old worn-out ground. Some background first. My GF and I have been together for just over 3 years. We still both live with our parents as we are not financial enough to get our own place. I am not religious at all (as long as humans have anything to do with it religion is flawed IMO). Her oldies are JWs and although she has never been baptised it has still had a profound effect on her. To make it easy to reply I'll point form my questions.
1. Paranoia(sp). Are JW's generally paranoid? I think I know the answer but I'll give some examples. My GF likes to make broad sweeping generalisations such as: Police, pollies, journos, are ALL corrupt. This may not seem that odd but it is how she says it. I've heard her mum say similar things.
2. Materialism. This is something that I have a real problem with. IF armageddon(sp) is coming why then do they (from what I've seen) buy Prestige cars, big houses, large screen TV's. My GFs parents wanted a second car so what did they buy? Not the standard sedan of course not, they bought the V8 Exec. model. I have seen other JW houses cars etc and I can find no other word for it but GREED.
3. Us/them. Why do they denounce the outside world but are OK deriving an income, accessing welfare/health system, etc. If anything wordly is demonic shouldn't they be living more like the amish.
4. Mental Health. My GF mum had a nervous breakdown 20 or so years ago. I asked my GF if her mum got counselling she said no and alluded that was frowned upon in the church. There is a history of depression in the family. My girlfriend has been depressed on and off for nearly 10 years (diagnosed, since day dot if you ask me) and she never got counselling. My theory is that there is a history of depression in the church. Can anyone add to this? What about the suicide rate, does anyone have any figures. All the people I've met seem very stifled and Borg (Best. Term. Ever) like.
5. Sex. My GF wasn't a virgin when she met me. Even though she has had sex she still feels guilty for feeling horny and NEVER masturbates. She told me it doesn't do anything for her so can't be bothered. However a few questions later I got to the root of the cause. If she gets the urge to 'pat the pussy' she feels incredibly dirty and it stops. So as you can tell her libido is quite low.
6. The role of women. There is an academic here in Oz that was DFed for speaking out about womens rights in the WTS but I didn't hear specifics. I know the woman has to be 'submissive' to her husband but how submissive?
7. End of Days (not the shithouse Arnie flick). If its all over soon (when exactly soon is a bit general) why: have kids, have a life, even bother.
8. Sport and dangerous shit. I have been led to believe that JW's are discouraged from persuing activities just for the thrill or dangerous stuff. What about pro sport? Aren't the Williams sisters JW's. I know JW's who own race cars, go skiing, rock climbing, sailing, ride motorbikes.
9. Disfellowed members. My GF's cousin was DFed I understand what normally happens but he attended his sisters wedding (not the reception though), works for his dad, sees his grandparents and my GF's mum still talks to him. Shouldn't they be brushing him off? Can't that get them DFed for talking to him.
There are other things too like how my GF's parents think it's OK to go into her room at any time for any reason to look for anything, anywhere. Fucked up I hear you say. More fucked up when I say she is 25. She reasons this by saying she has nothing to hide and if she said something they might think she had something to hide. I say so fucking what. At her age they should have some respect for her own personal space.
There it is my first post. Looking forward to the response.
Sorry about the grammar.
diamondblue1974

Welcome....rant and rave all you wish...its what we are all here for mainly.
Hope to see you round matey.
DB74
under74

Welcome to the forum. I'm probably not going to be able to answer all your questions right now but if you stick around a little while I'm sure others can answer some of them.

These are good questions.

1. Yes, I would say there is great paranoia amongst JWs and even ex-JWs. I still have a problem with it. BTW your GF is focusing on the police, media and whathaveyou because she's been programmed to. If she isn't paranoid about them then she'll get paranoid about how much power the JWs have over her.

2. I think it's a way of JWs copping out on this world. They are playing into what the GB (governing body) wants....but it's really an old christian trick. "This life will be over soon, heaven last always."

3. Yes, they should live like the amish but they are JWs and they're hypocrites.

4. All I can add is that I knew many JWs that had breakdowns (some in my family) They try and keep everything hush because if it gets out you'll be another step removed from perfection.

5. Yeah, that's crazy but typical.

6. I'm sure others can add to this. What I can say is that they go by the man being the "master." Jw women don't lead services and so on.

7. Exactly my friend. That's why so many left after they gave the 1975 date and nothing happened.

8. Yeah, but the williams sisters are rich. They have different rule books for different incomes.

9. mmm, I'm not dF'd (in fact I was never baptized) but the memebers of my family that are still don't speak to me. Again, different playbooks.

Anyway....that's what I got for now on your questions. Yeah, it's totally wrong what's happening with you GF but within the JWs it's typical. I hope she finds a way out and real soon.
squinks

Looks like you have the JW's pretty well figured out. They are very cultish and their mind control is pervasive. Get away and stay away from JW's help your girlfriend to do the same.
But, be gentle with her, don't use the same gestapo tactics the JW's do. Get money saved and get her out of her parents house if you love her.
DannyBloem

First of all Welcome. It is hard to generalize about people but I think the JW’s are more uniform then any other people. Even though on lot of the questions you ask JW’s look differently. I will try to answer the questions as good as I can. I do not defend them here, nor tell things worse then they are. I try to be as objective as possible.
1. Paranoia(sp). Are JW's generally paranoid? I think I know the answer but I'll give some examples. My GF likes to make broad sweeping generalisations such as: Police, pollies, journos, are ALL corrupt. This may not seem that odd but it is how she says it. I've heard her mum say similar things.

For things that have to do with politics they are paranoid. They see all political parties, organizations etc, as tools of the Devil. Literally. About other things as police etc, it depends very much. Most JW’s probably see them as useful and not overly corrupt. They make use of them too, and some JW’s have those kind of jobs too. Police (without guns) fireman, etc.
2. Materialism. This is something that I have a real problem with. IF armageddon(sp) is coming why then do they (from what I've seen) buy Prestige cars, big houses, large screen TV's. My GFs parents wanted a second car so what did they buy? Not the standard sedan of course not, they bought the V8 Exec. model. I have seen other JW houses cars etc and I can find no other word for it but GREED.

They are only human too right. And yes it is materialism probably. The feeling is mostly if you can pay for those things ‘why not buy’. They will never give to charity other than to JW boxes. What else they must do with there money. The WTS does the same also.
3. Us/them. Why do they denounce the outside world but are OK deriving an income, accessing welfare/health system, etc. If anything wordly is demonic shouldn't they be living more like the amish.

They have a very big feeling of the US/THEM. Everything that is not US is basically not good they think. There is no gray, everything is black and white. Why they do not live like the Amish has some reasons. They have to preach, and that is hard if everybody lives together. And of course for the preaching work there is money needed, so people must give money.
4. Mental Health. My GF mum had a nervous breakdown 20 or so years ago. I asked my GF if her mum got counselling she said no and alluded that was frowned upon in the church. There is a history of depression in the family. My girlfriend has been depressed on and off for nearly 10 years (diagnosed, since day dot if you ask me) and she never got counselling. My theory is that there is a history of depression in the church. Can anyone add to this? What about the suicide rate, does anyone have any figures. All the people I've met seem very stifled and Borg (Best. Term. Ever) like.
I do not know the figures. Would be interesting if somebody had good (non JW) statistics. I do not feel that the suicide rate is higher, because suicide is very strongly discourages. This sounds a bit strange I realize here, but the though is that if you do that you will also lose your changes of paradise.
About mental breakdowns, depressions etc, I think it is common, more common then other people. There are some reasons for this in my opinion. First, it is hard to please, you always can do better or make more hours etc. Second the JW religion is also attractive for people who are less stable already. Then third and this is very wrong, when a JW has such a problem there is not much done about it in most of the cases (until it gets very worse at least). The elders try to help sometimes but are not professionals and it is useless. The advice is like pray more or something like that.
5. Sex. My GF wasn't a virgin when she met me. Even though she has had sex she still feels guilty for feeling horny and NEVER masturbates. She told me it doesn't do anything for her so can't be bothered. However a few questions later I got to the root of the cause. If she gets the urge to 'pat the pussy' she feels incredibly dirty and it stops. So as you can tell her libido is quite low.
The view of most of the JW’s is that sex is ok, and not dirty. They do joke about this and brag about it sometimes. But this is only for married couples and then only the standard vaginal sex (no oral etc). Masturbation is considered bad also.
If somebody has other experiences, did masturbation before, had premarital sex then this can give a strong feeling of guilty, which can cause to be guilty for the whole sex thing. (This happens of course a lot)
6. The role of women. There is an academic here in Oz that was DFed for speaking out about womens rights in the WTS but I didn't hear specifics. I know the woman has to be 'submissive' to her husband but how submissive?
The official though is that woman must e submissive indeed, especially in spiritual things. Women are not really to question the husband (or other man) about those things. The submissiveness in normal daily relations is mostly not that high. Most women do not take these full submissive thoughts. The going expression is that: the man is the head, but I am the neck and make sure in which direction he is watching. It really depends on the couple.
The role of woman in the organization is very limited though. They can’t do much (except preaching) just because they are woman.
7. End of Days (not the shithouse Arnie flick). If its all over soon (when exactly soon is a bit general) why: have kids, have a life, even bother.
This is the official doctrine yes. Not many JW’s care too much. They think the end will come soon, but it can also be another decade or so. Just do the things that you want if the end comes it is also the same. About kids they believe of course that they will survive the end with them, so no problems there.
8. Sport and dangerous shit. I have been led to believe that JW's are discouraged from persuing activities just for the thrill or dangerous stuff. What about pro sport? Aren't the Williams sisters JW's. I know JW's who own race cars, go skiing, rock climbing, sailing, ride motorbikes.
Pro sports and dangerous things are discouraged, but you are not disfellowshipped for this (mostly). But there are sure not any privileges if you do so. What is dangerous is also always a discussion. Things like skiing, diving, moderate rock climbing etc are probably ok.
9. Disfellowed members. My GF's cousin was DFed I understand what normally happens but he attended his sisters wedding (not the reception though), works for his dad, sees his grandparents and my GF's mum still talks to him. Shouldn't they be brushing him off? Can't that get them DFed for talking to him.
There is room for talking to df-ed members of the family. It depends a bit the country, how strict it is. For none direct family members this is a strict NO though. And yes you can get DF yourself if you continue to do this.
There are other things too like how my GF's parents think it's OK to go into her room at any time for any reason to look for anything, anywhere. Fucked up I hear you say. More fucked up when I say she is 25. She reasons this by saying she has nothing to hide and if she said something they might think she had something to hide. I say so fucking what. At her age they should have some respect for her own personal space.
This really depends on the parents I guess. Can not say that this is normal or has anything to do with any of the WT teachings. Although the general feeling is that JW’s raise there children more strict and maybe has to do with this.
Nathan Natas

I think you need to dump your girlfriend and get out on your own. Move away, get a job somewhere else, live alone for a while. You need to sort out YOUR problems and issues. Save yourself first. In time you will met a nice atheist girl who doesn't have all the baggage that your current dysfunctional girlfriend has. By sticking with her, you are telling the world that she is the very best you can do. You know you can do better, given half a chance. The only person who can give you that chance is you. Don't tie yourself down to a bag of rocks at this young age. Get more education or trade training and set out to be the best in your field. Learn something about accounting and money management and in less time than you think you will be able to buy your way out of wage slavery.
Quite possibly you will think I am full of it. If so, thirty years from now you'll wish you had thought about this a bit more.
This is your future calling. Take action. Get a new start for yourself.
Sunspot

Hello Del+, and welcome!
You have some really good questions and observations that we would LOVE for any JW to answer! Hoping that you decide to stay here and post some more----
hugs,
Annie
Abaddon

Hi ya!
Here's a link;
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria
Cults or 'high control groups' can be defined by the behaviour they display. Obviously they will deny being a cult...
1. Paranoia(sp). Are JW's generally paranoid? I think I know the answer but I'll give some examples. My GF likes to make broad sweeping generalisations such as: Police, pollies, journos, are ALL corrupt. This may not seem that odd but it is how she says it. I've heard her mum say similar things.
This is classic black and white thinking, a cultic speciality, and is also part of the process of 'demonising' the outside world to increase people's dependance on the Organsiation.
2. Materialism. This is something that I have a real problem with. IF armageddon(sp) is coming why then do they (from what I've seen) buy Prestige cars, big houses, large screen TV's. My GFs parents wanted a second car so what did they buy? Not the standard sedan of course not, they bought the V8 Exec. model. I have seen other JW houses cars etc and I can find no other word for it but GREED.
People can be hypocritical, no matter what their beliefs. The more removed their beliefs are from normal everyday life, the more likely it is that they will end up being hypocritical in their interface with everyday life.
3. Us/them. Why do they denounce the outside world but are OK deriving an income, accessing welfare/health system, etc. If anything wordly is demonic shouldn't they be living more like the amish.
Spot on
4. Mental Health. My GF mum had a nervous breakdown 20 or so years ago. I asked my GF if her mum got counselling she said no and alluded that was frowned upon in the church. There is a history of depression in the family. My girlfriend has been depressed on and off for nearly 10 years (diagnosed, since day dot if you ask me) and she never got counselling. My theory is that there is a history of depression in the church. Can anyone add to this? What about the suicide rate, does anyone have any figures. All the people I've met seem very stifled and Borg (Best. Term. Ever) like.
A lot of cultists have problmes with mentall health.
5. Sex. My GF wasn't a virgin when she met me. Even though she has had sex she still feels guilty for feeling horny and NEVER masturbates. She told me it doesn't do anything for her so can't be bothered. However a few questions later I got to the root of the cause. If she gets the urge to 'pat the pussy' she feels incredibly dirty and it stops. So as you can tell her libido is quite low.
No, her libido is normal, she is just stopped from expressing it by programmed guilt.
Ask her to show you in the Bible where it says masturbation is wrong. It doesn't. Obviously people masturbated at the time, and it wasn't out of coyness they left it out as they mention bestiality. Then ask her what Jesus thought of people like the Pharasees who added to and elaborated the laws god had given the Israelites. Then ask her what Jeusu must think of people today add to or elaborate what is in the Bible. Ask her why god would give her the ability to do something enjoyasble that harms noone, and then condemn her for doing it. Be slow, be gentle, help her build the courage to feel good about her sexual feelings.
6. The role of women. There is an academic here in Oz that was DFed for speaking out about womens rights in the WTS but I didn't hear specifics. I know the woman has to be 'submissive' to her husband but how submissive?
Oh, it's a misogynists dream
7. End of Days (not the shithouse Arnie flick). If its all over soon (when exactly soon is a bit general) why: have kids, have a life, even bother.
Yeah, well they have been saying it will end soon for decades...
8. Sport and dangerous shit. I have been led to believe that JW's are discouraged from persuing activities just for the thrill or dangerous stuff. What about pro sport? Aren't the Williams sisters JW's. I know JW's who own race cars, go skiing, rock climbing, sailing, ride motorbikes.
The more famous you are as a Dubbie the more you get away with...
9. Disfellowed members. My GF's cousin was DFed I understand what normally happens but he attended his sisters wedding (not the reception though), works for his dad, sees his grandparents and my GF's mum still talks to him. Shouldn't they be brushing him off? Can't that get them DFed for talking to him.
In some places, yes. Others are more liberal about DF'd family members.
There are other things too like how my GF's parents think it's OK to go into her room at any time for any reason to look for anything, anywhere. Fucked up I hear you say. More fucked up when I say she is 25. She reasons this by saying she has nothing to hide and if she said something they might think she had something to hide. I say so fucking what. At her age they should have some respect for her own personal space.
I didn't have a door to my room until I was sixteen. This made me the quietest wanker in the entire Universe...
Honesty

Welcome to the board!!!
IMO, you have some decisions to make.
1. Do you love the girl or do you find her a challenge to conquer?
2. If you love her and eventually are a couple would you allow her to raise your precious children in a destructive and hate-filled cult?
3. Will she resist any attempts at de-programming her away from the JW cult?
4. Can you put up with more shit than you ever could imagine in your worst nightmares?
5. Are you willing to see the person you love suffer from all sorts of phobia and guilt that is brought on by a book publishing company?
6. Are you prepared to accept that the Watch Tower Society over rules any decision you make regarding your family?
As I see it, you have 3 choices...
Suck it up and watch her be destroyed as a humsn by the WTBTS and its JW cult full of demonised people.
Forget about her and realise that some day you will meet a person who does not have so much mind-numbing baggage strapped to her back.
Help her see the truth about the WT lies and support and encourage her to get off the WT ship of death.
under74

Abaddon-
This made me the quietest wanker in the entire Universe...

So sad...but so funny

New to the forum and I need answers...................please

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