God is a Nazi

by nicolaou 19 Replies latest members adult

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Judaism, Christianity and Islam all trace their roots back to Abraham and his covenant with a God who demanded absolute obedience. Abraham's obedience was tested in that he was ordered to kill his child with a knife! It didn't happen of course but surely these are manipulative tactics that the Third Reich would have been proud of!

    Assuming that God is real and that he communicated in a clear, authentic and unmistakable way today, would any current believers follow a similiar command from God to murder their own child?

    The Nuremberg Defense is a legal defense that essentially states that the defendant was "only following orders" ("Befehl ist Befehl") and is therefore not responsible for his crimes. The defense was most famously employed during the Nuremberg Trials, after which it is named.

    Heil God!

  • bigdreaux
    bigdreaux

    well then, abraham was the nazi, god was the furor. heil yhwh!!!!!!!!! i always thought this too. just never voiced it.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Welcome back Nic. I was just thinking about you this week, and wondered how you are. I'm down your neck of the woods in mid-July, so maybe we can hook up?

    To address your post: Did God actually attempt to get people to do those things, or did a few psychopathic nazis claim that He did?

    It could be claimed that I was the perpetrator of all manner of nasty things and people would believe it if they saw it often enough in print. That still wouldn't necessarily make it so. Hopefully my friends would know better but I wouldn't count on it, knowing how fickle we humans are. Likewise with God, from my limited perspective...

  • Dansk
    Dansk
    Assuming that God is real

    Ah, but never assume anything!

    Ian

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet

    HAS PROFESSOR HITCHENS NEVER HAD HIS DOOR ENLIGHTENED BY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES? READ DOROTHY DAY?, June 18, 2007
    By Desert Wanderer "desert wanderer" (In search of the American Southwest) - See all my reviews
    While he solipsistically and profitably amuses himself and others with his knocking down his home-made paper tigers and straw men, Hitchens purposefully evades the point of religion and its meaning, message and true mission of compassion and peace in our world. Hitchens seems to lay most umbrage at the Constantinian compromise which condoned holy and self-proclaimed just wars. War however is anathema to the Faith of Jesus Christ and directly opposes his clearest commandments, teachings, sayings and Holy Spirit.

    As ever, the Jehovah's Witnesses give irrefutable testimony of religion pure and simple: promoting equality of races and nations and people and refusing to participate in any form of warfare, or even pledging allegiance to the flag of any nation, even and especially in the fever pitch of war in WWII, VIetnam and Iraq.

    The Jehovah Witnesses historically have gone to jail rather than participate in our imperialist or any other wars and truly lay down their lives for their beliefs. Thanks to them rather than the Catholic Church which so often fails to practice prophetically what it so meekly and quietly preaches, we briefly had a viable Conscientious Objector status, as the Jehovah Witnesses based upon their religion and its free practice conscientiously objected to any form of participation in warfare, to the point of suffering imprisonment, etc.
    Have the Jehovah Witnesses not yet found the prickly pathway to Christopher Hitchen's darkened doorway, to leave him politely and well-groomed a copy of the Watchtower and Awake! (I read them in Spanish so forgive me if I get the titles wrong)? They nearly alone give witness and practice to the Gospel of Peace with justice for all people and creation which is the essence of the Christian eschatalogical vision.

    Has this alleged intellectual Christopher (ironically Greek for Christ-bearer or Messiah Bringer, as Lucifer was the Light-bringer) Hitchens not read his Thomas Merton? Hitch pretends never to have seen Father Tom's Cold War Lettersor his prophetic Peace In The Post-christian Era nor Thomas's Gandhi on Non-Violence: Selected Texts from Gandhi's "Non-Violence in Peace and War" (New Directions Paperbook) And speaking of Ghandi how can we permit this reductionist Hitchens to stuff the mighty Dr. King into a mere socio-political pocket? Can he truly remain ignorant of the theological basis of the Rev. Dr. King's nonviolent resistance as explored in Search for the Beloved Community: The Thinking of Martin Luther King Jr.?

    Let us not be so deceived. Hitchens suffers deeply from the self-loathing of the Michael Novak syndrome, of a courageous voice which once spoke brilliantly for sanity and peace and justice and then found no earthly profit in it, and felt the profound fear of the prophet in his own hometown. Novak meekly retired to scribing pro-business inanities for the American Enterprise Institute after a promising beginning as drum major for peace in time of war; Hitchens retires like Brendan Behan or Dylan Thomas or James Joyce's Citizen to a lethal bar stool to see what loud absurdities earn him the biggest bucks and most personal if temporary peace under the Bush dynastic regime, after a brilliant beginning lambasting earlier GOP foibles and lies. (An earlier review absurdly records this book as aimed at intellectuals for presuming they know who wrote Middlemarch! Check my allusions!)

    Others have noted here the way Hitchens cleverly invents evidence and whittles evidence to "prove" his hypothesis; such unscientific method would be roundly rejected in any English 101 essay and Rhetoric class. Others have noted well how he takes on a grim shroud of anger rather than reason, echoing thus the popular discourse of our post-rationalist times, writing for a post-literate era, for these darkened hours in which the cacophonous MacLaughlin Report and Bill O'Reilly pass for intellectual discussion.

    One admirable review of this diatribe which comprehensively refutes his purposeful absurdities is found in the latest issue of the Catholic publication Commonweal (June 15 2007) in an article written by Villanova Professor Eugene McCarraher, who carefully guides us through first the political, then the philosophical, then the logical, and finally the theological fallacies of Hitchens. Read that rather than Hitchens, and for a brilliant, careful and accurate examination of our secular nature as a post-literate, post-logical society, as evidenced ironically here by Hitchens, buy instead Al Gore's The Assault on Reason. Christopher Hitchens here in his book assaults not only reason but also God Almighty. Go figure. Go Al!

    God in her merciful compassion and infinite wisdom is not angered, but smiles. In fact, to handle his own anger, Mr. Hitchens might well read Anger or Being Peace by the prolific contemplative Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh, friend of Father Daniel Berrigan, and nominee by the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1967, back when it still meant something. Learn to pray with Father Berigan's Uncommon Prayer: A Book of Psalms or Father Thomas Merton's novice Father Ernesto Cardenal's Salmos (Coleccion Estructuras y Procesos), Read anything by Jesuit Father John Dear, especially Jesus the Rebel: Bearer of God's Peace and Justice and anything by Father Leonardo Boff, including Jesus Christ Liberator: A Critical Christology for Our Times. Read ANYTHING, Christopher, but please do your homework before you write! This is not a term paper you can bull your way through without any basis in objective truth. Research before you write, and your work will hold much more lasting merit than this very profitable yet temporary disposable claptrap which any second look can see through. Yet that is the secret to our consumerism: products designed to be used once and then thrown away to buy and buy some more. This is not spirituality; this is madness. Abandon all hope, or choose the higher path to peace.

    Peace. For God is great and God is good, greater by far than any of man's feeble and limited efforts to define the infinite, almighty, omniscient and all compassionate and merciful Creator. We cannot see God within man's dim mirrors and scralings and sinful violence. God is good. God is Love. What we in our deeply sinful state choose to do with the Love which is God brings poison, but God, who is Love, remains the ultimate and primordial and ineluctable, immutable good. No matter what Chris rages into the darkness he has chosen.

    Read Pacem in Terris, Populorum Progressio, Sacramentum Caritatis. God is Love, not poison, but peace which brings life in abundance.

    Did anyone hear the interview with Christopher Hitchins on radio 4 this morning - author of GOD IS NOT GREAT - HOW RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING?

    I was just looking him up as there is a book I'd like to read and came across this review by a JW apologist it would seem. The actual argument on the radio was a really good brisk back and forth between two intellectuals - one defending religion and the other obviously against. If I get chance tonight aI'll see if there is a listen again thing that I can post or transcribe here.

  • Scully
    Scully

    So glad to see you back, Nic!

    would any current believers follow a similiar command from God to murder their own child?

    Isn't that what JWs are doing when they refuse blood transfusions for their children? And if they don't they are punished by the WTS by being deemed "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", effectively killing their only known social network?

  • Gill
    Gill

    Crumpet - That was interesting!

    Is Hitchins aware of the amount of other religions that don't take part in war?

    The sad fact is that evil does need fighting and not just 'covering up'. This is something that the Jehovah's Witnesses fail to take into account.

    Scully - I can't off hand think of any other religions that insist on not giving a child any life saving treatment if it was needed on pain of excommunication. I am aware of some cult that doesn't accept any medical treatment but other than that it's just the JWs.

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    came across this review by a JW apologist it would seem.

    But it's ok to forget Mexico and Malawi? Looking the other way makes one just as culpable! Hypocrites!!

    Ian

  • Scully
    Scully

    Crumpet:

    Did anyone hear the interview with Christopher Hitchins on radio 4 this morning - author of GOD IS NOT GREAT - HOW RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING?

    There's some links on YouTube of Hitchens discussing his book in a public forum - quite good, imo:

  • Part 1
  • Part 2
  • Part 3
  • Part 4
  • Part 5
  • Part 6
  • As well as this thread by hamsterbait discussing the book: God is not Great

    I've got the audio version of the book and he discusses the contemptible behaviour that compels people to commit cruelty against their children in the name of God, not the least of which is male and female circumcision. Here's an excerpt, with apologies for errors in paragraphing from the original text, considering the audio version is the source of the transcription:

    Parents professing to believe in the nonsensical claims of Christian Science have been accused, but not always convicted, of denying urgent medical care to their offspring. Parents who imagine themselves to be Jehovah's Witnesses have refused permission for their children to receive blood transfusions. Parents who imagine that a man named Joseph Smith was led to a set of buried golden tablets have married their underaged Mormon daughters to favored uncles and brothers-in-law, who sometimes have older wives already. The Shia fundamentalists in Iran lowered the age of consent to 9, perhaps in admiring emulation of the age of the youngest wife of the prophet Mohammed. Hindu child brides in India are flogged and sometimes burned alive if the pathetic dowry they bring is judged to be too small. The Vatican and its vast network of dioceses has, in the past decade alone, been forced to admit complicity in a huge racket of child rape and child torture, mainly but by no means exclusively homosexual, in which known pederasts and sadists were shielded from the law and reassigned to parishes where the pickings of the innocent and defenseless were often richer. In Ireland alone, once an unquestioning disciple of Holy Mother Church, it is now estimated that the unmolested children of religious schools were very probably the minority.

    Now religion professes a special role in the protection and instruction of children. "Woe to him," says the Grand Inquisitor in Dovstoyevsky's The Brothers Karamazov, "who harms a child." The New Testament has Jesus informing us that one so guilty would be better off at the bottom of the sea, and with a millstone around his neck at that. But in theory and in practice, religion uses the innocent and the defenseless for the purposes of experiment.

    By all means, let an observant Jewish male have his raw, cut penis placed in the mouth of a rabbi. That would be legal, at least in New York. By all means, let grown up women who distrust their clitoris or their labia have them sawn away by some other wretched adult female. By all means, let Abraham offer to commit suicide to prove his devotion to the Lord or to prove his belief in the voices he was hearing in his head. By all means, let devout parents deny themselves the succor of medicine when in acute pain and distress. By all means, for all I care, let a priest sworn to celibacy be a promiscuous homosexual. By all means, let a congregation that believes in whipping out the devil choose a new grown up sinner each week and lash him until he or she bleeds. By all means, let anyone who believes in creationism instruct his fellows during lunch break. But to the conscription of the unprotected child for these purposes is something that even the most dedicated secularist can safely describe as a sin.

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet

    Excellent - thanks Scully!

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