Toxic Parents Toxic Religion

by Lady Lee 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    In the book Toxic Parents, by Susan Forward she discusses the issue of parenting and just what the term toxic parents means. On pages 6-9 of the book she talks a bit about abuse and then has a short quiz which I will post.

    What I would like to try is to see how well the issue of toxic parents fits a toxic religion. It might be interesting to see how many of us can relate to one or both sides of the theory.

    NOTE: My comments are italicized

    Page 6-7

    What do Toxic Parents do to you?

    Whether adult children of toxic parents were beaten or left alone too much, sexually abuse or treated like fools, overprotected or overburdened by guilt, they almost all suffer surprisingly similar symptoms: damaged self-esteem, leading to self-destructive behavior. In one way or another, they almost all feel worthless, unlovable, and inadequate.

    These feelings stem, to a greater degree, from the fact that children of toxic parents blame themselves for their parents? abuse, sometimes consciously, sometimes not. It is easier for a defenseless, dependant child to feel guilty for having done something "bad" to deserve Daddy?s rage than it is for that child to accept the frightening fact that Daddy, the protector, can?t be trusted.

    When these children become adults, they continue to bear these burdens of guilt and inadequacy, making it extremely difficult for them to develop a positive self-image. The resulting lack of confidence and self-worth can in turn color every aspect of their lives.

    Taking your Psychological Pulse

    It is not always easy to figure out whether your parents are, or were, toxic. A lot of people have difficult relationships with their parents. That alone doesn?t mean your parents are emotionally destructive. Many people find themselves struggling on the cusp, questionning whether they were mistreated or whether they?re being "oversensitive."

    I?ve designed the following questionnaire to help you take the first steps toward resolving that struggle. Some of these questions may make you feel anxious or uncomfortable. That?s okay. It is always difficult to tell ourselves the truth about how much our parents may have hurt us. Although it might be painful, an emotional reaction is perfectly healthy.

    For the sake of simplicity, these questions refer to parents in the plural, even though your answer may apply to only one parent.

    You can either go though the questions and answer to both parents and JWs or one at a time or perhaps just the one applies to you and not the other. But keep an open mind and think about whether it applies to one or both or neither.

    The second post will contain the questionnaire.

    The third post will discuss my thoughts on how the questions fit into the JW religion.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Part 2

    Questionnaire

    1. Your relationship with your parents when you were a child:

    1. Did your parents tell you you were bad or worthless? Did they call you insulting names? Did they constantly criticize you?

    2. Did your parents use physical apin to discipline you? Did they beat you with belts, brushes, or other objects?

    3. Did your parents get drunk or use drugs? Did you feel confused, uncomfortable, or ashamed by this?

    4. Were your parents severely depressed or unavailable because of emotional difficulties or physical illness?

    5. Did you have to take care of your parents because of their problems?

    6. Did your prents do anything to you that had to be kept secret? Were you sexually molested in any way?

    7. Were you frightened of your parents a great deal of the time?

    8. Were you afraid to express anger at your parents?

    1. Your adult life:

    1. Do you find yourself in destructive or abusive relationships?

    2. Do you believe that if you get too close to someone, they will hurt and/or abandon you?

    3. Do you expect the worst from people? From life in general?

    4. Do you have a hard time knowing who you are, what you feel, and what you want?

    5. Are you afraid that if people knew the real you, they wouldn?t like you?

    6. Do you feel anxious when you are successful and frightened that someone will find out you are a fraud?

    7. Do you get angry or sad for no apparent reason?

    8. Are you a perfectionist?

    9. Is it difficult for you to relax or have a good time?

    10. Despite your best intentions, do you find yourself behaving "just like your parents"?

    1. Your relationship with your parents as an adult:

    1. Do your parents still treat you as if you were a child?

    2. Are many of your major life decisions based upon whether your parents would approve?

    3. Do you have intense physical or emotional reactions after you spend or anticipate spending time with your parents?

    4. Are you afraid to disagree with your parents?

    5. Do your parents manipulate you with threats and guilt?

    6. Do your parents manipulate you with money/

    7. Do you feel responsible for how your parents feel? If they?re unhappy, do you feel it?s your fault? Is it your job to make it better for them?

    8. Do you believe that no matter what you do, it?s never good enough for your parents?

    9. Do you believe that someday, somehow, your parents are going to change for the better?

    If you answered yes to even one-third of these questions, you may have reason for concern.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Part 3

    1. Your relationship with your religion when you were a child:

    1. Did your parents tell you you were bad or worthless? Did they call you insulting names? Did they constantly criticize you?
    The JWs are often reminded how they are worthless, how they need to do more and more. We may not have been called names but the constant push to do more is like a statement that you still aren?t good enough.

  • Did your parents use physical pain to discipline you? Did they beat you with belts, brushes, or other objects?
    • For many the "rod of discipline" was a literal rod. The fear of using the rod can be just as controlling as if it had been used.

  • Did your parents get drunk or use drugs? Did you feel confused, uncomfortable, or ashamed by this?
    • Well the alcohol and drugs may not apply unless you were connected with the Bethel family. But what about workaholism ? in this case the meetings and service and study? The constantly shifting rules and teachings can keep people confused. Because so many rules are unspoken it can add to the confusion. Too often a magazine for the public will say one thing but the practice in the congregations is something else. The whole issue of shunning someone is uncomfortable for some and hurtful to the one being shunned. And making any infraction against the rules, either written or verbal creates an enormous anmount of shame in a person. The whole issue of a "Bible-trained conscience" is a tool to induce guilt for even thinking certain things.

  • Were your parents severely depressed or unavailable because of emotional difficulties or physical illness?
    • Due to many of the pressures on JWs to perform many do become depressed. The families of elders are emotionally abandoned by the elder to fend for themsleves. And sadly too often there is little attention given to "women and orphans" ? the caring for the flock for their basic needs. People are often ignored when they are sick and only get a visit or a call when they are not performing as expected.

  • Did you have to take care of your parents because of their problems?
    • The R&F are responsible to maintain the reputation of the organization at the expense of their own well-being. Problems are hidden to "maintain a spotless reputation", those who do not conform are DFed and shunned to "keep the congregation clean"

  • Did your parents do anything to you that had to be kept secret? Were you sexually molested in any way?
    • All "sin" is to be kept secret. And sadly many who were sexually abused in their homes or by other JW were told to be quiet or else risk a judicial committee. And clearly the perpetrators of the abuse are protected at the expense of the victims.

  • Were you frightened of your parents a great deal of the time?
    • Most JWs fear a visit form the elders. They are taught that not only actions but even private thoughts can lead to sinning. The fear of being Dfed and shunned is a huge control factor.

  • Were you afraid to express anger at your parents?
    • No dissent is allowed. No questionning, no doubt.

    1. Your adult life:

    1. Do you find yourself in destructive or abusive relationships?
    Some people find that after they leave the JWs they get involved in abusive relationships or other controlling religions.

  • Do you believe that if you get too close to someone, they will hurt and/or abandon you?
    • Many people feel that God won?t love them or others will abandon them. They become afraid of joining other churches thinking that like the JWs it is all or nothing or that they will never be good enough.

  • Do you expect the worst from people? From life in general?
    • After years of being taught the world is controlled by Satan and that worldly people are evil it can be difficult to reach out to people and hope for the best. If what you got from a JW was a lack of real caring and shunning, then it can be easy to expect even worse from others

  • Do you have a hard time knowing who you are, what you feel, and what you want?
    • The JW personality that replaces the true self. A person?s entire identity and life surrounds a religion. It accepts what it is told and is not allowed to think for itself. Independent thinking is condemned. Therefore when people leave many have difficulty knowing what to believe in, how to feel, what they like. There are so many things that have never been done or tried. Many feel very over-whelmed that they now have to learn to make their own decisions about how to live. For many it can lead to a life-style that continues the old patterns of behavior or seeks out another group or relationship that is just as controlling.

  • Are you afraid that if people knew the real you, they wouldn?t like you?
    • An artifact of having to hide the true self from other JWs many people continue to feel they need to hide who they really are. Many find it difficult to tell people that they used to be a JW and almost all find it difficult to explain some of the issues and problems that need to be faced.

  • Do you feel anxious when you are successful and frightened that someone will find out you are a fraud?
    • Because so many have been taught that life in the real world is the road to death many continue to believe that any success they have will lead to ultimate failure. Any success they have in this world is doomed.

  • Do you get angry or sad for no apparent reason?
    • For many, and especially for those who have not examined some of these issues, feelings of anger or sadness may seem to arise for no apparent reason. Understanding what our "triggers" are can be helpful.

  • Are you a perfectionist?
    • The JWs constant pressure to perform can become a life-style pattern. Learning that being human is more important than being perfect is a task for many.

  • Is it difficult for you to relax or have a good time?
    • See above 18

  • Despite your best intentions, do you find yourself behaving "just like your parents"?
    • It is very simple to find ourselves falling intot he old patterns of thinking and behaving. Especially when stressed or feeling alone it becomes easy to fall into old patterns. During these times one can even consider going back.

    1. Your relationship with your parents as an adult:

    1. Do your parents still treat you as if you were a child?
    According to the WTS all R&F are like children who are in constant need of reminders of what to think, say, and do. Punishment is meted out to anyone who breaks or even questions the rules. "Because I say so" is the only accepted reason given for constantly changing rules and doctrine.

  • Are many of your major life decisions based upon whether your parents would approve?
    • As a JW ALL decisions are made based on whet the "mother" organization teaches. Personal feelings are only considered as secondary. Where you live, what kind of car you drive (2-door vs 4-door), what you wear, when and where you will go on vacation, whether you will accept a blood transfusion, how you raise your children all becoem decisions controlled by the "mother"

  • Do you have intense physical or emotional reactions after you spend or anticipate spending time with your parents?
    • Just the thought of having to go to meetings or spend time with JW family members can cause anxiety in some people. For some an up-coming Memorial can increase stress due to the expected invitation to attend. Wedding, funerals, and most other major family get-togethers can add stress. Many people in fact, throw out all their JW books and mags in an attempt to purge themselves of the JW lifestyle.

  • Are you afraid to disagree with your parents?
    • Even after people leave many are afraid to speak badly of the organization. The teachings that make the orgaization the equivalent of God cause many to feel like criticizing the organization is the equivalent of criticizing God Himself.

  • Do your parents manipulate you with threats and guilt?
    • Even JW adults are scared of the threat of being DFed and shunned and therefore losing family, friends and community. Many guilt tactics are used to control the members.

  • Do your parents manipulate you with money?
    • The WTS has never really been honest about their financial practices with the R&F. Members are encouraged to give and give and give. Most recently the fear of losing family inheritances if one leaves adds to the fears of leaving.

  • Do you feel responsible for how your parents feel? If they?re unhappy, do you feel it?s your fault? Is it your job to make it better for them?
    • The fear of sinning and bringing shame to the congregation adds guilt to the R&F. To maintain the congregations reputation all behavior must conform to the strict rules. The belief that just one sin in a congregation has the power to remove God?s spirit can be a powerful incentive to please the elders

  • Do you believe that no matter what you do, it?s never good enough for your parents?
    • Another artifact of the constant pressure to conform, many continue to try to be perfectly good. Feeling that they will never measure up, some determine to be perfectly bad.

  • Do you believe that someday, somehow, your parents are going to change for the better?
    • I suspect that some people think the organization will change and become more caring, loving and accpeting of people as people.

    So what can you add? How do your beliefs match up?

    Toxic Parent or Toxic Religion?

    For some of us a definite BOTH

    Next section http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/59414/1.ashx

  • Xandria
    Xandria

    Lee,

    I could relate to a majority of the topics listed and think back to a time where it was a constant hypervigilance trying to anticipate needs because you did not want to have problems arise from letting your guard down. When you did~ you got hurt.

    This is where the grounds for co-depency comes in.

    "Codependence is a primary, progressive, chronic, fatal, and treatable disease which is caused by being raised in an emotionally dishonest, Spiritually hostile environment. The primary environment is the family system which is part of the larger emotionally dishonest and dysfunctional society which is part of a civilization that is based on false beliefs about the nature and purpose of being human.

    Codependence is characterized by dependence on outer or external sources for self-worth and self-definition. This outer or external dependence, combined with unhealed childhood emotional wounds which get reactivated whenever an emotional "button" is pushed, cause the Codependent to live life in reaction to, give power over self-esteem to, outside sources." - Codependence Defined

    We learned to relate to ourselves as emotional beings from the role modeling of the adults we came in contact with and the messages we got from the way they treated us - as

    well as the messages we got from cultural sources ranging from fairy tales to religion.

    "We are set up to be emotionally dysfunctional by our role models, both parental and societal. We are taught to repress and distort our emotional process. We are trained to be emotionally dishonest when we are children."

    "When the role model of what a man is does not allow a man to cry or express fear, when the role model for what a woman is does not allow a woman to be angry or aggressive, that is emotional dishonesty. When the standards of a society deny the full range of the emotional spectrum and label certain emotions as negative - that is not only emotionally dishonest, it creates emotional disease. If a culture is based on emotional dishonesty, with role models that are not honest emotionally, then that culture is also emotionally dysfunctional - because the people of that society are set up to be emotionally dishonest and dysfunctional in getting their emotional needs met.

    What we traditionally have called normal parenting in this society is abusive because it is emotionally dishonest. Children learn who they are as emotional beings from the role modeling of their parents. "Do as I say not as I do," does not work with children. Emotionally dishonest parents cannot be emotionally healthy role models, and cannot provide healthy parenting."

    "The dance that we learn as children - the repression and distortion of our emotional process in reaction to the attitudes and behavior patterns we adopt to survive in an emotionally repressive, Spiritually hostile environment - is the dance we keep dancing as adults. We are driven by repressed emotional energy. We live life in reaction to childhood emotional wounds. We keep trying to get the healthy attention and affection, the healthy love and nurturing, the being-enhancing validation and respect and affirmation, that we did not get as children. This dysfunctional dance is Codependence. It is Adult Child Syndrome. It is the tune that humans have been dancing to for thousands of years. Vicious, self-perpetuating cycles of self-destructive behavior."

    (All quotes in this color are from Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls)

  • Xandria
    Xandria

    The most destructive emotional abuse is the emotional abuse we learned to inflict upon ourselves. We formed our core relationship with self in early childhood and have been judging and shaming ourselves ever since. The most destructive thing about the emotional abuse we suffered because our parents were wounded, was that we incorporated the messages we got from their behavior into our relationship with self. We emotionally abuse ourselves on a daily basis. If we had healthy self esteem we would not allow anyone to emotionally abuse us - including ourselves.

    "When we were children we couldn't look around us and say, "Well, Dad's a drunk and Mom is real depressed and scared - that is why it feels so awful here. I think I'll go get my own apartment."

    Our parents were our universe as children. We were not capable of understanding that they might have problems that had nothing to do with us. So it felt like it was our fault.

    We learned about love from people who were not capable of loving in a healthy way. Our core / earliest relationship with ourselves was formed from the feeling that something is wrong and it must be me. At the core of our being is a little kid who believes that he/she is unworthy and unlovable. That was the foundation that we built our concept of "self" on.

    Because my parents did not know how to Love themselves, their behavior towards me had caused me to experience love as critical, shaming, manipulative, controlling, and abusive. Because that was my experience of love as a child and I had to learn to reprogram myself and my reactions to ?love?. It was also, and most importantly, the relationship that I had with myself.

    In order to start changing my relationship with myself, I had to start changing the type of relationships I had with other people, I to learn the True nature of Love.

    Love is not:

    Critical Shaming Abusive Controlling Manipulative
    Demeaning Humiliating Separating Discounting
    Diminishing Belittling Negative Traumatic
    Painful most of the time etc.

    Love is also not an addiction . It is not taking a hostage or being taken hostage. The type of romantic love that I learned about growing is a form of toxic love. The "I can't smile without out you," "Can't live without you." "You are my everything," "You are not whole until you find your prince/princess" messages that I learned in relationship to romantic love in childhood are not descriptions of Love - they are descriptions of drug of choice, of someone who has a warped view of love.

    Additionally, Love is not being a doormat. Love does not entail sacrificing your self on the altar of martyrdom - because one cannot consciously choose to sacrifice self if they have never truly had a self that they felt was Lovable and worthy. If we do not know how to Love ourselves~ how to show respect and honor for our self ~ then we have no self to sacrifice. We are then sacrificing in order to try to prove to ourselves that we are lovable and worthy - that is not giving from the heart, that is codependently manipulative, controlling, and dishonest.

    Unconditional Love is not being a self-sacrificing doormat - Unconditional Love begins with loving self enough to protect our self from the people we love if that is necessary. Until we start Loving, honoring, and respecting our self, we are not truly giving - we are attempting to take self worth from others by being compliant in our behavior towards them.

    The purpose of having boundaries is to protect and take care of ourselves. We need to be able to tell other people when they are acting in ways that are not acceptable to us. A first step is starting to know that we have a right to protect and defend ourselves. That we have not only the right, but the duty to take responsibility for how we allow others to treat us ."

    It is important to state our feelings out loud, and to precede the feeling with "I feel."

    This is owning the feeling. It is important to do for ourselves. By stating the feeling out loud we are affirming that we have a right to feelings. We are affirming it to ourselves - and taking responsibility for owning ourselves and our reality. Rather the other person can hear us and understand is not as important as hearing ourselves and understanding that we have a right to our feelings. It is vitally important to own our own voice. To own our right to speak up for ourselves.

    Thank you,

    Lee.

    X.

  • maybesbabies
    maybesbabies

    Thank you Lee, I think Xan and I probably answered yes to the majority of those questions!! Thanks Xan, for your posts, it helps to understand the reasons behind our actions. I am just beginning to learn how to be independent, not relying on the actions of others to judge how I should react in turn. I still have a problem with " hypervigilance trying to anticipate needs", and remember all to well how we were when we would come home from school, or wherever, and the first thing we'd do was try to figure out the mood of our parents. Are they angry? Am I going to come home and face a beating for something that I didn't even know I'd done wrong? Our greatest hope sometimes was that they were too busy attacking each other to notice us, because it seemed that if they noticed us, it would ultimately bring pain. Our mother was the master of "you know what you did!", and my father was the master of making you feel worthless, telling you what an idiot you are, and basically breaking you down until you cried, just so he could laugh at you. I can't remember ever being told that we had done something right. My father used to use "well, if you had done better, Jehovah wouldn't be punishing the family, would he?". EVERYTHING was the childrens fault, from their failed relationship to being homeless, it was all because we weren't good enough. Sorry, I just had to vent, those posts had me crying! Thanks to both of you, love you Xan!!!!

  • Xandria
    Xandria

    (( Tay ))

    We are facing the facts that we had EXTREMELY Toxic Parents. I am very glad that you are searching out the answers for yourself.

    EVERYTHING was the childrens fault, from their failed relationship to being homeless, it was all because we weren't good enough

    Our parents were our universe as children. We were not capable of understanding that they might have problems that had nothing to do with us. So it felt like it was our fault. But it is not our fault and it never was. Realizing that will help free you of any "responsible" feelings you had~ that is a false burden. We were children at the time ~ Tay!

    Do you believe that someday, somehow, your parents are going to change for the better?

    Fortunately we are coming to terms with what happened and learning to deal with this. We still struggle with not reacting to you know who. But~ we are becoming stronger. We also realize that our sister has this hope of change lets just hope she will work on change for herself....

    RULE #1 You cannot change anyone else.

    Give up thinking that, if only she or he stopped doing this or that, then you would be happy. It is not true. You can do nothing to control, manipulate or coerce another person to acting in a way you think should make you happy. Simply give it up. No blaming.

    RULE #2 You can change your behavior.

    Your emotions, reactions, thoughts, feelings, all are not really under your control. But your behavior is, and your behavior is all you are really responsible for. Change yourself.

    RULE #3 -- Changing your behavior, over time, may lead to a change in attitude.

    It is strange how that happens, but some things you thought you could never stand, seem to lose their importance if you stop feeding them by acting on them. Keep hope.

    RULE #4 You are not responsible for anyone else's addiction, but if you want this relationship to have a ghost of a chance you will have to get specific support. That may mean therapy (couples and individual) and/or support groups. The two of you are going to have to learn new ways to communicate, argue, and problem solves together, and that means you can't do it on your own. Get help.

    RULE #5 -- Your childhood wasn't as rosy as you fool yourself into thinking it was.

    Everyone learned some dysfunctional ways of relating from their parents. These old beliefs are entrenched, and very hard to change. That is why you need feedback from people other than your partner, or your family. Too often you are reacting just the way your mother or father taught you to react. Learn the truth.

    RULE #6 -- You need to learn how to stand up for your truth in a way which will not degrade, humiliate, put down, or attack another person.

    You do this by owning all your thoughts, feelings, and reactions as your own, not as something caused by someone else. Don't shame others.

    RULE #7 -- Count to twenty before you explode.

    Then, just before you let fire, ask yourself if you might not get further with this issue if you didn't first talk it out with a third party, before destroying the planet of your partner. Hold back

    RULE #8 -- Try using the phrase " I interpret what you are doing as..." rather than the old stand by, " You make me feel. . . ".

    So, "You made me so mad when you slammed the door!" becomes, " I got so mad when you slammed the door because I interpreted that to mean that you were pissed off at me!". Your partner can respond," Yes I was mad at you!", or can respond, " Hey, the wind blew the door closed!" Own your feelings.

    RULE #9 -- You have very strong emotions in two circumstances. Either you are being truly, strongly abused by someone else, or you are painting the face of a previous abuser onto the face of the person you are with.

    This is called projection and it is the primary cause of divorce. If you are in clear danger, either get away, or at the very least get some professional counseling. But if you are not in real danger, but keep getting furious at every little thing she or he does, entertain the possibility that you are projecting the face of a parent, or old partner onto your present companion. Just entertain the idea that it may not be all their fault. Talk about it with some uninvolved people. Check it out.

    RULE #10 -- Take care of your body.

    Eat healthy, exercise moderately, soak in a bath, get a massage, be gentle with yourself. This is a highly stressful time. So don't try to be perfect, just try to be a loving parent to yourself. Be gentle with yourself.

    Just know~ that I do love you and from this we can build towards a happier future.

    Love,

    X.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    X

    some awesome info you have there. Thanks for contributing it. I am working on another piece from Toxic Parents.

    What really interests me about it is how it almost all can be applied to the WTS.

    maybes

    Crying is good for you hon. Gets all those nasty toxic chemicals out of your system.

    Too much of this is familiar to some of us. Probably why some are so attracted to it. It feels like home.

    The goal of recovery is that this no longer feels like home and we recognize it for what it is and run the other way - whether it is family, relationships, or religion

    (((xan and Maybes)))

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    Something the jw religion doesn't teach, indeed it teaches the complete opposite, is that Christ preached against the spirit of the "terrible father". The church leaders, in their fundamentalism, (pharisees) imparted the 'rules', the threats, the admonition of inadequacy, and even the punishment.

    The other side of the parenting of those spiritual children was the guilt that they not leave their 'mother' who was only acting for their eternal protection. This character of the church, as with the father, is seen in age old tales, like the medusa, deprived of her natural charm and unable to hear any criticism, would methodically hang on to those who would look into her, turning them to stone.

    Absolutely antichrist.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    excellent post A Paduan

    antichrist for sure

    • Share this

    Google+
    Pinterest
    Reddit