Grissom, will you stand by your words?

AuldSoul

Grissom,

On another thread, you wrote of Jehovah's Witnesses and the publications produced by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (presumably of New York, Inc.):

grissom: The beliefs are from the Bible.

Prove it. I invite you. This is a very important thing for you to be able to do because the book Reasoning From the Scriptures says that the organization God is using in our day will base all its teachings and standards on the Bible. (see relevant "Organization" subheading) I already believe it is just a lie Jehovah's Witnesses tell themselves. But, perhaps you can prove me wrong.

If you have knowledge of Scripture sufficient, please tackle one or all of these:

(1) Active JWs—Do JWs actually carry a "life saving" message?

(2a) ALL current JWs: Please give feedback here or by PM
(2b) Sophistry Lessons—JW Baptismal Prerequisites

(3) If Jesus could share Scriptures with Satan, a known and incorrigible apostate, in response to challenges—why can't Jehovah's Witnesses share Scriptures with me in response to my challenges? (Matthew 4)

(4) Where is the Scriptural support for calling the Faithful and Discreet Slave a (a) class of people serving as (b) God's sole channel of communication responsible for distributing (c) "new light" to the other sheep who (d) could not gain accurate spiritual understanding without such help?

(5) Where is the Scriptural support for elders convening secret trials (see the nighttime trial of Jesus) that cannot be witnessed or recorded and whose judgments are rendered on behalf of and in place of the congregants using their own judgment?

(6) Where is the Scriptural support for disfellowshipping anyone due to who they choose to talk with/associate with?

I daresay you are incapable of touching a single one Scripturally, and you will note none of these springs from quibbles over past understanding, teachings, or practices.

grissom: Sure, challenge me on any subject because the problem is that people are make conclusions without getting the proper information.

I invite you to take up the gauntlet I have thrown. You made a claim, prove it. If I have little knowledge in comparison to you, you have much to teach me. Demonstrate your point to the lurkers.

Remember, human reasoning will count for absolutely nothing. You said the beliefs are based on the Bible.

Watchfully,
AuldSoul

Leolaia

I would sure like to know where in the Bible it says that the calling for Christians to a heavenly hope would be virtually completed by the year 1935.

carla

If we can't get the 'proper' information from their literature why do they print it?

AuldSoul

That is a good one to add, Leolaia!

Carla, while that was Grissom's argument on another thread I culled from one of his posts the two utterly false claims he made and invited him to demonstrate whether he can substantiate his claims.

(1) "The beliefs are from the Bible."

It is false, and I can handily prove the falsehood of the statement.

(2) "...The problem is that people are make conclusions without getting the proper information."

It is false, I base my conclusions on over 21 years as a baptized Jehovah's Witness, someone who aided 3 people to the point of baptism (or 4, depending on whether you count one of them), being the son, nephew, and grandson of Presiding Overseers in 3 separate congregations, with other uncles serving on bodies of elders in varying capacity, and having studied the Bible exhaustively. I have the "proper" information from any perspective he might mean the term to apply.

Grissom's plight is that he will be unable to substantiate his false claim that the beliefs are from the Bible and he will thus be unable to demonstrate that the problem is what he stated the problem to be.

I think I know what his solution will be. I encourage him to exercise his right to tuck tail and run from this challenge if he does not enjoy being soundly thrashed with no weapon other than the sword of the spirit.

If he decides to accept the challenge, he will be unable to avoid human reasoning in defense of these teachings/standards. I am confident that is the case because I know the Bible does not support these teachings/standards.

I await his reply, but do not expect to receive one. No JW has yet shown any Scriptures to support the current teaching on any of these points and I am confident no JW ever can. Because ... wait for it ... these current teachings don't come from the Bible!

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

skyking

It would sure be nice if he would straighten me up so I could get all this apostate thinking out of my head. Grissom please help me.

carla

I have asked my jw, an elder and a ms similar questions Auldsoul, and asked them to show me in the bible only. The answer is always the same, they are 'bible based' and then give some twisted reasoning, as you are well aware of. My question is if they are 'bible based' why not just use the bible? Then of course we get into the circle of 'god's org', 'spirit directed' and so on. How can one phrase the question without going in these circles?

AuldSoul

When they leave the Bible and start with anything outside the Bible, ask them why these Bible-based teachings have to have human interpretation.

They will probably give you an answer (as disjointed as it may be). Follow on with asking whether they believe the Bible is fallible. They will answer, no. Then ask whether human interpretation is fallible. They will answer, yes.

The next question is obvious: "Why I should be expected to believe that a human interpretation, any human interpretation, is the correct one when the Bible is infallible?"

If they can't show you from the Bible, the teachings aren't Bible-based. They are human and will change (as they have changed) many times over.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

AuldSoul

I'll be back on over the weekend to see if anything came of this beyond a feeble attempt to espouse human reasoning in place of Scripture. I expect he won't even try. So much for my improper understanding.

Marvin Shilmer

Howdy, Auldsoul

Grissom is unable to prove true from the Bible such teachings as the WTS’ blood doctrine. If he were able then you can bet your bottom dollar he’d stand up right here, right now, and do it. He is just as lost as all the other Watchtower worshippers. These do not serve a theocracy; they serve a Watchocracy.

Marvin Shilmer

Big Tex

Auld Soul

You know as well as I do that 98.6% of Witnesses have neither the courage nor the knowledge nor the desire to engage in anything approaching an intelligent discussion. These sorts of people exist only to throw mud at the wall long enough to see how much sticks.

I've been guilty of losing my temper and wasting time arguing with people who troll here just to cause angst. They are not interested in accuracy or truth. To quote an old elder I once knew: "Don't bother me with the truth, I've got my mind made up!"

How can you argue with that?

Grissom, will you stand by your words?

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