JW Ben: Judicial Committees

by AuldSoul 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    JW Ben,

    You said you will answer questions a long as no one becomes rude. I can't really guarantee that no one on the forum will become rude in this thread, but I can guarantee that I won't, so long as I am treated with respect.

    From my research, I have found no Scriptural basis for the following aspects of Judicial Committees:

    1. Elders acting in place of or on behalf of the individual members congregation in determining who is guilty and what the punishment should be.
    2. Conducting secret hearings, without allowing witnesses to the proceedings or allowing the proceedings to be recorded.
    3. Making a statement of the outcome (sentencing) and expecting congregants to abide by the elder's decision whether they know the facts of the matter or not.
    4. Ruling in favor of shunning ANYONE who voluntarily leaves, i.e. those who no longer call themselves a brother.

    I would like to know what Scriptural basis you have found for each of these aspects of Judicial Committees.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • skyman
    skyman

    Is Jw Ben still on the forum?

  • skyman
    skyman

    I see he has posted recently. Well JW Ben You still need to answer me about my blood letter you promised you would. SO DO IT> right after you answer AuldSoul that is.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    According to this page, yes: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/105169/10.ashx

    But he is already telling Annie, who gave two decades of her life to that organization, that she obviously doesn't know much about JWs. Based on what? On Annie saying that they are told monthly what the offer is. Which, they are told monthly what the offer is. "The offer for the month of [fill in] is [fill in]." Every month, like clockwork, the announcement for the following month's offer is read from the platform.

    They are instructed to use the suggested offer AND the suggested presentations as a sign of a cooperative spirit, but JW Ben wants to create the impression that they aren't instructed to do so, that they can use whatever they like and teach whatever they want to teach—so long as it comes straight from the Bible, and not the Watchtower Society literature.

    We will see whether he answers questions about a subject near and dear to my heart straight from the Bible. I think he'll be hard pressed, but I might be surprised after all.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • Mary
    Mary

    JWBen is an idiot. He told me almost a year ago that he would post proof about the Borg and despite my many requests, he simply ignored it. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/85664/1.ashx

    He knows he has no proof of anything and he won't respond to your questions because he has no answers.

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    JW Ben wants to create the impression that they aren't instructed to do so, that they can use whatever they like and teach whatever they want to teach—so long as it comes straight from the Bible, and not the Watchtower Society literature.

    That's one of the best ways to get a brief mention between the Announcements and the Service Meeting, "JW Ben is no longer considered one of Jehovah's Witnesses."

  • belbab
    belbab

    JW Ben, aka Son of a JW I would like to cut you some slack.

    It looks like many here want a reply from you for many different questions.

    You must be very busy, and are a bit overwhelmed. It is like a reporters scrum, questions coming from all directions. Ask everyone to put up their hand and then you answer one at a time.

    Now this thread is about judicial committees.

    So off the top of my head and paraphrasing some texts I would like you to hold in your boggened noggin these two points.

    In ancient Israel, the elders held office at the gates of cities, There they held court, they could watch all strangers, commerce and problems from within the city, and what is coming towards the city. It was all open to the public, citizens and strangers, all the gossip, news, announcements business, legal affairs were done there. How come judicial committees, are held in the back rooms, in in my time, in the basements of KHs. Why the secrecy?

    Did not Paul say, reprove before all onlookers, the erring ones?

    No rush on this one, take all the time you want.

    belbab

  • Forscher
    Forscher

    Here is an essay which appeared on another forum a few years back. It is short, but interesting.
    Disfellowshipping

    Disfellowshipping! Wow, finally one of my hot-button issues! Since you asked for scriptural references as well Galileo, let me see what I can do for you.

    Since sound doctrine must be compatible with the whole Bible, let's take a little look at how things were handled under the Jewish system. First off, Israel was a sovereign nation, which means that it had a law code with criminal penalties, including capital punishment. How matters were adjudicated reveals much about our god and, consequently, how he wants his servants to handle matters of wrong doing.

    Under the Mosaic Law, all matters were adjudicated openly, for all the people to see. So much was this so, that one of the principle objections that Jewish leaders have today to the Gospel stories of the trial of Jesus is that the secretive nature of his trial, as recorded in the Gospel, was impossible under Jewish law and could not have possibly taken place that way. Trials usually took place at the city gates with the older men of the city sitting in judgment (De. 21:19-21.). The book of Ruth confirms that legal disputes were handled in that manner (4:1.). Two or more witnesses were required to establish guilt (Nu. 35:30, De. 17:6.). So, as we can see, everything was open and above board.

    By the time of Christ, the Jews had added expulsion, or disfellowshipping, to their justice toolbox. It would appear that the Romans had placed certain restrictions on the religious leaders to invoke capital punishment for some offenses that merited it under the Mosaic Law (Joh. 18:31). As a number of studies by social scientists have confirmed, expulsion from a group is a potent punishment that can have lasting consequences. So it would appear that the Jewish leaders had found a powerful weapon to use to insure conformity. The Bible has an example of expulsion being invoked in the case of a man who spoke well of Jesus (Joh 9:8-34.). As you read that, please note that the trial of the man was conducted publicly, as required by Jewish Law, even if the judgment and punishment were unjust.

    So what about the Christian congregation? How did they do it in the first century? It would appear that they adopted the Jewish penalty of expulsion for certain cases. How was it done? Well, we know that in several cases The Apostle Paul ordered it done himself (1Cor. 5:5, 11; 1Tim 1:19-20.). Since Paul was led by Holy Spirit in his actions, we can assume that he had the authority to do so. Note here as well, that Paul was open about what he did. We have recorded for all time just why he ordered the expulsions. It can't get more public than that!

    Paul also chided the congregation of Corinth for not having judged and expelled the malefactor themselves (1 Cor. 5:12:13). As late as the beginning of the second century, it appears that expulsion was still practiced by the Christian congregation since John mentions an abuse of the authority (3 Joh. 9-10.). The standard of two or three witnesses still applied (1 Tim 5:19-20.). Apparently all things were done open and above board the same as had been required of Israel.

    In modern times, expulsion has been used from the beginning. Under Russell, expulsion was only invoked for those who practiced (not guilty of one or two acts) the things for which the Bible clearly mandates such an extreme action. The trail was apparently conducted in front of the whole congregation with them involved in the decision. And , to this day, that is how I understand the Bible Students to handle the matter (If I am wrong, I will welcome correction in the matter.).

    After Russell's death, things changed. Presently, judicial matters are handled by Star Chambers. Three elders meet secretly, interview the accused and the witnesses separately, and make their decision in secret. They are guided by a manual that they will usually refuse to allow defendants access to in making their decisions. And I am not at all impressed with the arraignment.

    I've personally been involved with several hearings. On one occasion, a witness was DF'd on the strength of rumors of wrong doing. In another, a rape victim was DF'd despite denials that the intercourse was consensual. These defendants were never allowed to confront any of the witnesses against them. (So much for the "two witnesses" rule that the society proclaims to the world to be sacrosanct.) And in one case, the defendant was not even informed of the decision, or right to appeal it, before the decision was announced to the congregation! To say that many of these star chamber tribunals are rife with corruption, I think, is an understatement.

    You asked! So there it is.

  • MerryMagdalene
    MerryMagdalene
    the defendant was not even informed of the decision, or right to appeal it, before the decision was announced to the congregation

    Aye. That's how it was for me. First, my JC meetings was so secret I didn't even know what it was. I thought it was just a friendly visit, a shepherding call. Second, I was not informed of their decision to DF me nor my right to appeal it.

    The announcement that I was DFed, or no longer a JW--however they worded it at that time--with no explanation to the congregation as to why they were to shun me did no one any good as far as I could tell. It was very stressful to my mother not to know why she had to shun me, and to have all the terrible possiblities playing through her mind constantly.

    If someone is going to shun a former friend or family member, shouldn't they know why? If they don't, it is no longer a matter of obedience to God and their Christian conscience but of blind obedience to human leaders.

    ~Merry

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