Persecution - MWUHAHA...

by SYN 26 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  SYN

  Another day, another rant. After reading Latte's post on JahH's thread, it seems that the Dubs are going full-bore into their good old Duck and Hedgehog style of crying "PERSECUTION!!!!!" as soon as it looks like they're being exposed.

  Dateline, apparently, was persecution. Amongst other BLOODY EXCUSES I've heard (apologies for the language, Simon, but this ticks me off endlessly) coming from Dubs are things like "Barb was wearing a cross, therefore she was not a True Christian (sic)!", that all of the people on Dateline were DFd and thus automagically transformed into the heinous Spawn of Lucifer the Cloven Hoofed One, and that Bill Bowen was a Satanist!

  Now, with the huge, asteroid-hitting-the-Earth sized splash that the Panorama program on the BBC is going to make, the Dubs' hackles are truly being raised! My mind can just picture the Elders and Ministerial Servants at the Conventions (esp. some of the more strident ones) foaming at the mouth, their faces red, wiping sweat off their brows from the sheer stifling heat in the supremely uncomfortable Stadiums, screaming "WE ARE BEING PERSECUTED, MY BROTHERS!" into the microphones. Pity the sound guys have to bear the brunt of this, and I'm willing to bet large amounts of cash on the fact that some poor sod has to sit with his finger on the volume control knob the whole time after Panorama airs, ready to turn the volume down and up again in case some Elder attempts a Rutherfordian exposition of the "deep things of Satan" (it's unfashionable to call him Lucifer in Dub circles, but I like the name ).

  This brings me to my main point. If facts are exposed, how can that POSSIBLY be persecution? How on Earth can they say that? To me, persecution involves nasty things that happened during the Spanish Inquisition, not somebody exposing very true facts about child molestation!

  So let's take the Governing Body's view on things into account. Hey, they work hard and deserve some credit, right? (Hehehe). According to them, whenever somebody doesn't voice their woes to an Elder, they are "going against the Organization" and "causing divisions". First prize goes to the first person who tells me what any Elder would have done with all the information Bill Bowen has. Come on, do you honestly believe that the Governing Body would do anything? For starters, they have a big file containing 20,000 pedo cases in Brooklyn. What is being done with it? I betcha it's being shredded as we speak! The GB has a track record of mercilessly silencing victims of pedophilia and promoting the pedos themselves to positions of responsibility.

  So let's have a look at your average Judge and what the sentence is for a pedo. Let's say (a conservative estimate) that for every child he molests, a pedo gets 1 year in jail. There are 20,000 cases on file at Bethel, and that's most probably just the tip of the iceburg.

  Somebody is going to be spending a LOT of time in jail!
• 

  Xander

  Brooklyn needs persecution.

  I still have that 'gut feeling' this whole thing has been a setup. They KNEW the 1914 timeline would fail eventually (the GB obviously knows everything they've been spewing about it is BS) - they needed a 'plan B' to keep people coming to meetings.

  Public 'persecution' a la 'Great Tribulation' (tm) would fit the bill perfectlty. It certainly did the job in WW2.

  Now, however, the general public doesn't get worked up enough over nationality. The whole blood issue isn't getting them enough publicity...what about using CHILDREN...

  I mean, seriously, it's the only explanation that works. Unless you can honestly believe that the dozen or so men who rose to power in the org high enough to be appointed to the GB and rule a 6 million strong cult could be so stupid as to be either:

  1) Completely unaware of the pedofile issue (ALL of them?!?! How long were they JWs before getting on the GB?!?!?!)

  2) Sincerely hope it would just 'go away' (again - rose to power over 6 mil strong cult - no one could possibly be so conniving and still be to stupid - certainly not ALL of them).
• 

  SYN

  A very interesting theory, Xander, and one I've never actually thought about.

  If it were true, it would quite possibly be the most sickening thing I've ever heard of. Then again, the GB is responsible for the deaths of unknown numbers through their fatal Blood Policy - so I suppose something like this would be chickenfeed for them to pull!

  But seriously, wouldn't bad publicity be bad for their publishing business? That's the one major thing that would affect their sales!

  Personally, it is my feeling that the GB are just a bunch of guys with giant ego problems who enjoy ruling over people, and don't want their BOrganization to go down the toilet. It's possible that some may even be sincere, but highly unlikely. As one gets higher in the Tower's hierarchy of madness, the ego dominates more and more.
• 

  SpiceItUp

  BAH!!!!!

  Main Entry: persecute
  Pronunciation: 'p&r-si-"kyt
  Function: transitive verb
  Inflected Form(s): -cuted; -cuting
  Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French persecuter, back-formation from persecuteur persecutor, from Late Latin persecutor, from persequi to persecute, from Latin, to pursue, from per- through + sequi to follow -- more at SUE
  Date: 15th century
  1 : to harass in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
  2 : to annoy with persistent or urgent approaches (as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : PESTER
  synonym see WRONG
  - persecutee / "p&r-si-"ky-'tE / noun
  - persecutive / 'p&r-si-"ky-tiv / adjective
  - persecutor / -"ky-t&r / noun
  - persecutory / -ky-"tOr-E, -"tor-; -"ky-t&-rE / adjective

  Main Entry: expose
  Pronunciation: ik-'spOz
  Function: transitive verb
  Inflected Form(s): exposed; exposing
  Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French exposer, from Latin exponere to set forth, explain (perfect indicative exposui), from ex- + ponere to put, place -- more at POSITION
  Date: 15th century
  1 a : to deprive of shelter, protection, or care : subject to risk from a harmful action or condition <expose troops needlessly> <has not yet been exposed to measles> b : to submit or make accessible to a particular action or influence <expose children to good books>; especially : to subject (a sensitive photographic film, plate, or paper) to radiant energy c : to abandon (an infant) especially by leaving in the open
  2 a : to make known : bring to light (as something shameful) b : to disclose the faults or crimes of <expose a murderer>
  3 : to cause to be visible or open to view : DISPLAY: as a : to offer publicly for sale b : to exhibit for public veneration c : to reveal the face of (a playing card) or the cards of (a player's hand) d : to engage in indecent exposure of (oneself)
  synonym see SHOW
  - exposer noun

  Dateline was not attacking the JW's because of their beliefs. They were exposing the truth of their faults which don't have any basis for their beliefs.

  Basically the whole persecution is hogwash (scuse the southern term..I am from GA). I think if they bring up the persecution ask them if they think the Catholic church has been persecuted. Ask them if they would want a Catholic priest exposed if he was molesting a child. See what they say then. I am sorry but you cannot have it both ways. Either have your cake OR eat it.

  Spice

  my .02
• 

  SpiceItUp

  Xander--interesting but I don't buy it. Yeah they say that bad publicity is better than no publicity but if you think about their numbers. They, as I see it aren't going to go up in numbers only down especially with such a tender issue as child-molestation. I think that they have tried to hide too long and its just now backfiring on them in a big way. It would affect their numbers more positively if they were to take out those that harm children and tell the world...look we are AGAINST harming children. This in no way can be good for them. But again its always nice to get the devils advocate view.

  Spice
• 

  Xander

  wouldn't bad publicity be bad for their publishing business?

  Business? What business? I never got anybody to 'donate' for the mags. In the US the mag pub business works as follows:

  1) Talk given detailing how much we should donate for literature items

  2) We order, then pick up literate items

  3) We 'voluntarily donate' to cover the 'costs of printing'

  4) We then try to get the householder to take the literature (they don't) and the donate to the org (they won't)

  Public negative view of the WTBTS won't hurt them at all - it's the publishers funding the org, not the public.
• 

  Xander

  This in no way can be good for them

  Then why are they fighting? Why do they say 'look at our org and our nice videos, we have no problem' out of the one side of their mouths, but then, out of the other issue policies that STILL maintain the rules for elder investigation that led to the situation in the first place.

  I mean, it's not like they honestly believe at Bethel that the elders are fit for criminal investigation - if there is a murder in the congregation, they take it to authorities, no questions asked. Drug running? Authorities, no questions asked.

  etc.

  They have files, they have an idea how bad it is. Either you have to believe they don't consider child molestation a crime or they have some agenda for letting it continue.

  And...letting it continue doesn't help the org IN ANY LOGICAL WAY - except one. One very significant way. It makes the world turn on the witnesses. It 'fulfills divine prophecy'. Self-fulfilled, to be sure, but the rank and file are too brainwashed to see it.

  The org has ALREADY started giving talks detailing how this is persecution. Why issue outlines to speakers acknowledging the world is finding fault with these teachings and calling it persecution, then CONTINUE TO ALLOW THE PROBLEM TO FESTER!?
• 

  SpiceItUp

  Either you have to believe they don't consider child molestation a crime or they have some agenda for letting it continue.

  Uh..well they have articles on this..how to protect your children against abuse. So perhaps they actually don't think it is a crime (spare the rod, spoil the child..still abuse just a different kind) but to save face with todays government they have to pretend that they do. After all there highest numbers are in the US and the US would shut them down if they openly admitted that they dont think it is wrong to abuse children.

  I think their aganda is simple..they dont view it as a crime (I mean look at the way they treat women for one) and are only trying to save face after the fact. reread my definition of persecution...this cant even apply. as child-molestation is criminal not religious, and the whole basis for persecuting someone is about religion. Those that buy into the persection are just incredibly deluded - that part I do agree on.

  And...letting it continue doesn't help the org IN ANY LOGICAL WAY - except one. One very significant way. It makes the world turn on the witnesses. It 'fulfills divine prophecy'. Self-fulfilled, to be sure, but the rank and file are too brainwashed to see it.

  So are you saying that they have created this giant conspiracy just to fullfill their prophesy?
• 

  BluesBrother

  Spice it up " They dont view it as a crime"

  Sorry but I disagree. All the witnesses I know are abhored by child abuse and I still believe that the Gov Body do not intentionally intend to create an environment for such horrible acts.

  Yet I must reluctantly admit that this seems to have occurred. Why?

  Perhaps their distrust of "The World" has a lot to do with it and fear that someone accused would be thrown in jail without a fair trial , after all Satan "Rules this world"

  Also the innate belief that "Jehovah sees all and we can leave it in his hands" Sit back ,do nothing and wait for the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth.

  Ray Franz said that the Gov Body are victims too of the instutional thinking that they have had for decades.

  This is not to excuse their negligence, just a perspective.
• 

  SpiceItUp

  Sorry but I disagree. All the witnesses I know are abhored by child abuse and I still believe that the Gov Body do not intentionally intend to create an environment for such horrible acts.

  Oh ...please don't get me wrong. I am not specifically speaking in terms of general witnesses (aka the average publisher). In fact I think the average person within the Borg thinks that child abuse is horrible..that is why I still have hope for many. They just need to start thinking on their own.

  I am however speaking within theirs own distorted definitions of what is a crime and what is morally wrong. take a step back...They don't really believe in beating children..it is wrong (yet they view it as spoiling the child if they spare the rod). Many here have pointed to the fact that they have archaic teachings. In some parts of the world, back in the dark ages..crimes that are now considered heainous(sp?) were rather commonly practiced.

  Ray Franz said that the Gov Body are victims too of the instutional thinking that they have had for decades.

  I think is more of the view I was going for. I for one don't think that they are that smart to rig up this controversy just for the publicity or prophesy (after if they were..they would have stayed away from the whole generation thing to begin with..except perhaps they actually believed it.)