COMMENTS YOU WON'T HEAR AT THE 12-22-02 WT STUDY

by blondie 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • blondie
    blondie

    COMMENTS YOU WILL NOT HEAR AT THE 12-22-02 WT STUDY

    NOVEMBER 1, 2002 WATCHTOWER PAGE 14

    CHRISTIANS NEUTRALS IN THE LAST DAYS

    JOHN 17:16: "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."

    Introduction

    Christian neutrality has been an evolving or devolving doctrine among Jehovahs witnesses since the beginning.

    Superior Authorities

    From 1879 to 1929, the "superior authorities" were taught as being the secular governments.

    From 1929 to 1962, the WTS taught that the "superior authorities" were Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.

    From 1962 to the present, the WTS has taught that the "superior authorities" were once again the secular governments.

    Alternative Service

    http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/militaryservice.htm

    http://www.geocities.com/le_thanh_y/Quit_files/AlternatServ.htm

    Voting

    http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/voting2.htm

    http://www.jwfiles.com/vote.htm

    United Nations

    http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm

    Blood and Bulgaria

    http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/euro_blood.htm

    What does it mean to be no part of the world?

    "WE ORIGINATE WITH GOD"

    The wars, crime, cruelty, oppression, dishonesty, and immorality that are so rampant today give evidence of Satans, not Gods, influence.

    When an individual becomes one of Jehovahs Witnesses, he will not practice or consent to such wrong practices
    , and that makes him no part of the world.

    What kind of wars? Secular wars, perhaps. Have you observed JW comments since 911? Do you hear "we," "us," "them," identifying themselves with the victims and viewing the Islamic terrorists as their enemies? Do you hear people saying, "our country" when referring to the US? Are they fighting these in spirit by mentally taking sides?

    What about crime? Will the elders turn in possible or known criminals to the superior authorities? Whether they are business frauds or thieves, wife or child beaters, pedophiles or murderers? Check this article:

    March 15, 1977 Watchtower pages 191-2 Questions from Readers Still, Gods Word does not charge the Christian congregation, through its overseers, with the obligation to become acquainted with all the details of civil and criminal law so as to enforce these.

    Onesimus was a slave of a Colossian Christian named Philemon. For some selfish reason Onesimus fled to Rome so he could lose himself in the masses of people there; he may even have robbed his master before fleeing. In Rome as a runaway slave (Latin, fugitivus) Onesimus came in contact with Paul, became a Christian and ministered to Paul. In time the apostle urged Onesimus to return to his legal master, Paul even encouraging Philemon to receive Onesimus as a brother and to treat him kindly.Philem. 8-22.

    Take note that while Onesimus was in Rome the apostle Paul did not hand him over to the Roman authorities for punishment as a fugitive slave and possibly a thief.

    We know from his writings that Paul believed that a Christian should obey the law of the land, but plainly he did not consider it the congregations duty to serve as an arm of the government in policing individuals lives.
    Also, we can observe that Onesimus situation was not treated as a barrier to his getting baptized . (see also 10/1/86 WT p 31 Questions from Readers)

    Jehovahs Witnesses say, "we belong to Jehovah."

    A true Christian does not devote his life to some secular cause. And while he respects national emblems, he does not worship them, either by actions or in spirit. But he can have a "library card" at the UN and make a deal with the Bulgarian government saying that minors do not have to observe the JW laws on blood transfusions.

    He certainly does not worship sports stars or other modern idols.
    (Watch out Packer fans, keep those Packer emblems off your car when you go to the KH during the CO visit.)(or substitute the team of your choice).

    Of course, he respects the right of others to do as they wish.

    MY KINGDOM IS NO PART OF THIS WORLD"

    The Kingdom is the means by which Jehovahs name will be sanctified, his sovereignty vindicated, and his will done on earth as it is in heaven.

    w95 5/15 25 Flashes of Light-Great and Small (Part 2)
    Similarly, for a long time, Witnesses spoke of the vindication of Jehovahs name. But had Satan called Jehovahs name into question? For that matter, had any of Satans agents done so, as if Jehovah did not have a right to that name? No, not at all. It was not the name of Jehovah that was challenged and that needed to be vindicated. That is why the Watch Tower Societys recent publications do not speak of Jehovahs name as being vindicated. They speak of Jehovahs sovereignty as being vindicated and of his name as being sanctified. This is in keeping with what Jesus told us to pray: "Let your name be sanctified." (Matthew 6:9)

    Rutherford has the vindication of Gods name in just about every other paragraph of his books. How could a man who claimed he received the "meat in due season" directly from the angels, make such a basic mistake. Did he neglect to reach the Lords prayer?

    In 1914 the prophetic words of Revelation 11:15 were fulfilled.

    At a certain point, even secular rulers will be forced to acknowledge its authority.

    How will Jesus feel when he finds out about how the WTS has been "in bed" with the UN and the Bulgarian government?

    True Christians are spiritually separate from the world.

    But,

    No human government has the right to impede that God-given work of bearing thorough witness.

    I wonder if they are going to share this thought with the Islamic countries that forbid proselytizing?

    It would be good to look up the letter sent to the Nazi government in 1934 and compare it to the quote in this article and see how "neutral" it is. (1934 Yearbook of Jehovahs Witnesses p. 134 approx)

    Some quotes:

    *** Yearbook 1934 p.134 ***
    The greatest and the most oppressive empire on earth is the Anglo-American empire. By that is meant the British Empire, of which the United States of America forms a part. It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations. This fact particularly applies to the cities of London and New York, the stronghold of Big Business. This fact is so manifest in America that there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills.

    *** Yearbook 1934 p.135 ***
    The present government of Germany has declared emphatically against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nations. Such is exactly our position.

    *** Yearbook 1934 Page 136 ***
    Instead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles, and point out that Jehovah God through Christ Jesus will bring about the full realization of these principles and will give to the people peace and prosperity and the greatest desire of every honest heart.

    *** Yearbook 1934 p.137 ***
    A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness...

    *** Yearbook 1934 p.138 ***
    "Let us remind the government and the people of Germany, that it was the League of Nations compact that laid upon the shoulders of the German people the great unjust and unbearable burdens. That the League of Nations compact was not brought forth by the friends of Germany."

    AMBASSADORS AND ENVOYS FOR CHRIST

    At one time, 2 whole articles were used to explain the difference between envoys and ambassadors. Now it is assumed the average JW knows even though more than 75 percent came in after those articles.

    IDENTIFIED BY LOVE

    Brotherly love is the key to being a Christian.

    Actually I believe self-sacrificing love is the key and JWs are not encouraged to sacrifice for each other but for the WTS.

    And how does the WTS say they fulfill this mandate.

    Because they love God and their brothers, it would be inconceivable for the to take up arms against fellow Christians.

    Right, they wont use a bazooka or an AK-47 on you, but they will use the tongue, the stabbing sword, to ruin people reputations and lives.

    Their peace and unity is a demonstration that they truly have Gods spirit.

    Pictures show a Hutu and Tutsi working together on a roof. A Jewish and Arab Christian brothers and shown as well as Serbian, Bosnia and Croatian Christians enjoying each others company. (I guess the sisters dont count even though their mouths can cause the most damage in a congregation).

    If anyone has ever been at an elders meeting and seen the unity there, you would be laughing.

    HOW CHRISTIANS VIEW THE WORLD

    Jehovah has pronounced an adverse judgment on this world, but he has not yet judged all individuals in the world. He will do that through Jesus in His own due time.

    Really, then God better start paying attention to the ones in the congregation that are self-appointed judges who label people as immature, weak, bad association and label the ones on the outside as "goats" who only will be getting a warning because they are doomed.

    And what do we offer those ones at the door? The WTS carrot: "the opportunity to receive everlasting life."

    GODS LAW AND CAESARS

    How to balance submission to human governments with submission to divine authority.

    See beginning of this review illustrating how the WTS can rewrite what belongs to God and what belongs to Caesar.

    WE WILL STAND FIRM

    We must remember that we must expect opposition. 2 Timothy 3:12

    In a world where Satans influence reigns, why would we not meet opposition?

    Have you met JWs who blame everything bad that happens to them on Satan? You can see that they brought it on themselves. If you kick the dog, why be surprised if it bites you. If you tell people at the door that they arent true Christians and will die soon, why be surprised if a door meets your nose.

    We are convinced that Jehovah and his angels will support us.

    But,

    It may be that Jehovah, for his own good purpose, allows pressure from opposers to continue for a while.

    Translation: Wait on Jehovah. Accept the abuse.

    We use or time here to "get a firm hold on the real life," everlasting life in Gods new world. (used to be new world society, new system, new order).

    No human can deprive us of that reward as long as we remain faithful to God.

    Yes the reward again. But we must be faithful to God first and the WTS second.

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    interesting post blondie,

    Do you think cranky ol' Rutherford was hoping for or even banking on a German victory over Anglo-America? He definetly had deep problems that man.

    unclebruce

    ps: i'm still chewing the 'vindication of jehovahs name' business.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Hi Uncle Bruce. I guess I don't want to delve too deep into the mind of Rutherford. I have been reading his books lately. My grandfather used to spout about the Big Three, Politics, Big Business and the clergy. The pictures of these 3 are very unflattering. When I get my scanner, I hope to post some on a thread. The WTS is too PC to print them now.

    I'm sure Rutherford thought that Germany was the King of the North which he said would prevail over the King of the South. He comes across as such a hate-filled man in those books. I'm sure he would have liked the US government to be punished for putting him in prison.

    Yes, on the vindicating change, I could not find a single article until 1995 that explained the change even though it happened several years before. It is like the change from new world society to new system of things to new order to new world. Not a peep. Many a JW will bring you up short if you say "new order" too.

    Blondie(who is not staying for the koolaid)

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Here are some of my comments from the same article. Note:

    text in red is directly quoted from WT materials.

    December 22 WT Study

    Christian Neutrals in the Last Days from WT November 1, 2002 Why should I Apologize ?

    Ambassadors and Envoys for Christ

    Since 1914, spirit-anointed Christians can properly be spoken of as ambassadors for Gods Kingdom, if which they are sons....Further, Jehovah has brought out of the nations a great crowd of other sheep, Christians wit an earthly hope, to support the anointed sons in their ambassadorial work....These other sheep can be termed envoys of Gods Kingdom.

    Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive!

    Sir Walter Scott

    I laughed when I read this. Since the WTS has cut off the heavenly hope for the great majority of other sheep, the WTS cannot apply this biblical instruction to them. To be foreigners and ambassadors in the world one has to be a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven. Other sheep, being citizens of this world, are merely hired staff for Jehovahs ambassadors, the anointed. Yet, the other sheep are to remain separate from the world just like the ambassadors. The WTS is stuck going beyond what is written and coin a separate term , envoys for the other sheep, though there was never any distinction made in the bible.

    In reality, even though ambassadors themselves are neutral and exempt from the laws of the land (being subject to the laws of their own country), their staff are not similarly protected.

    I was rather sharp with my honey when we studied this article last night. I chalk up my lousy mood to spending too much time in the company of Yardif. My honey lost his temper at this point in the article, and made the comment:

    Ok, ok then. The anointed crap on the golden toilet, and the envoys use the bronze toilet. Whats your point?

    Too funny. He might have also been upset because the worship of sports stars was specifically mentioned.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Very funny, jgnat.

    Actually, the anointed get the golden throne (toilet) and the GC get the hole in the back yard.

    Yes, the GC are made to feel so secondary which is strange since they are required to have the same qualities as the "anointed." The GC was once felt to be a secondary, not as faithful, heavenly class. I just finished reading the Studies in the Scriptures and Russell certainly puts the remnant on high even on earth above the rest of mankind.

    While on earth, Jesus certainly never constantly talked about his returning to heaven to become king over all.

    Blondie(who is getting a golden toilet (throne) soon)

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Once again a blondie triumph, thought why anyone would spend time reading the judge is difficult for me to understand; maybe you just want to see where the mindset of all the older jw's comes from? No old teaching really goes away, they hang around in the minds of the older ones. My wife refused RH factor serum even after the society said that it is a conscience matter, and it took me a while to get the blood card out of my wallet.

    RE the GC: second class citizen, baby. I never thought about it much, they told me not to, but it is true.....we don't count for much, and the only reason we are here is that the fellowship said, hey we don't feel like we are going to heaven. Or is that just the PR?

    But I now realize that the FDS is a myth: there is no group of older ones that receive holy spirit, just the usual bunch fighting off the alligators and trying to manage a crumbling empire. Each WT study I attend is a test of my ability to stay quiet, and not challenge the audience to see through the twisted reasonings and double talk, like the ambassador and envoy thing, give me a break. Anything to deny the GC status as a real christian.

    THANKS AGAIN BLONDIE, I hope you feel better soon.

    pistoff

  • nightwarrior
    nightwarrior

    I have just read the comments, on the wt study for sunday, oh I am so glad that I have not attended the meetings for some time now.... it was getting harder and harder to sit through the talks never mind the wt study.... in fact for the last year, i only attended the talk and left before the wt study, because I could not in all honesty sit and listen to some of the drivel that was being discussed, and the 'heartfelt answers' LOL being given, be these self rightous, self opinionated people...... and just reading your comments makes me so wild....I am so glad that the burden of having to study the WT lifted, and researching on my own steam, and being allowed my own thoughts is very uplifting and independent, and it makes me feel sooooo goooodd..

    hope i didn't ramble too much

    wife of nightwarrior

  • blondie
    blondie

    Thanks, pistoff. Yes, I am finding Rutherford's books more difficult than Russell's. A lot of hate in Rutherford's book. He is also harping on the big three, Politicians, Big Business, and the Clergy as well as "vindicating Jehovah's name." Every once in awhile he throws in a bizarre idea. But it does help me see where the mindset originated for many ideas. I hate the word "privileges" and JFR uses that liberally. I like to see the old ideas that changed too and how it was justified.

    Thanks, Mrs. nightwarrior. I admire you for sitting through the public talks. The speakers are so bad that I tune out and do my personal study making sure I look up the scriptures when directed; I just go to my own scripture. Instead of the WT Study, they should call it the Regurgitation Hour.

    Blondie(who is feeling a little better)

  • Mum
    Mum

    Thanks for all of your "comments you won't hear" posts, Blondie, as well as your other great posts.

    I was just thinking about the issue of "neutrality" today in conjunction with George W. Bush's statement that "You are either with us or against us." I remember those Bible studies the JW's had with my parents when I was a child, and this matter came up. I can remember being taken aback because of my mother's "answer" to one of the questions in the book (was it Let God Be True?) that "There is no middle ground."

    It seems that JW's allow themselves the option of neutrality, but disallow it to others. Fence sitting (when, in reality, there is LOTS of it) is not allowed as to acceptance of JW dogma. Then JW's are told to sit on the fence as regards the stuff that really does affect their daily lives.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Thanks, Mum. I find some JWs say this, "If I weren't a witness, I would vote for so-and-so." Or "I think the government should do this." Or "I would be a Democrat." It is as if they can step out of their JW skin and take on a new persona temporarily. If they were truly JWs, they should realize that it doesn't matter who is in charge because they all belong to Satan according to the WTS.

    The hypocrisy comes out in so many ways. Do as I say not as I do.--WTS creed

    Blondie

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit