Confrontation - is it for Christians?

by jgnat 49 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  jgnat

  agapa's quiet admission to "imperfect men" in the congregation inspired me to finish a small bible study on confrontation, and how the early church handled disputes.

  (Romans 12:18 RV) If it be possible, as much as in you lieth, be at peace with all men.

  (2 Cor 13:11 CEV) Good-by, my friends. Do better and pay attention to what I have said. Try to get along and live peacefully with each other. Now I pray that God, who gives love and peace, will be with you.

  (Eph 4:3 RV) giving diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

  (Hebrews 12:14 CEV) Try to live at peace with everyone! Live a clean life. If you don't, you will never see the Lord.

  We are familiar with the Jehovah's Witness method of peace. Put up and shut up. Don't make any waves. Endure your imperfect brothers for the sake of unity. But is this the Christian way? How did the early Christians resolve disputes? Did they tolerate imperfection in their brothers?

  JESUS INSTRUCTS, DON'T LET OFFENCES FESTER

  Note that he tells the offended party to go directly to the source.(Matthew 5:21-24) (Matthew 18:15-17)
  The pattern is as follows.

  1. Go directly to your brother to work it out.
  2. If that doesn't work, talk about it with some witnesses present.
  3. If that doesn't work, bring it before the congregation.
  4. If that doesn't work, say good-bye to your friendship.

  Where in these two examples are the elders as intermediaries? Closed door meetings? Private reproof? "Wait on Jehovah"? It is clear that disputes are to be handled quickly, directly between the two parties in dispute, in public, so that no-one can question the wisdom of the decision.

  GREEK WIDOWS

  I think the first big dispute came over the treatment of widows. (Acts 6). Did the widows keep silent and "wait on Jehovah"? No! Here's the pattern of dispute resolution I see here:

  1. Widows complain.
  2. The twelve called everyone together and suggested that someone be assigned to take care of it.
  3. The multitude agreed, and the problem was resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

  Fairly open and democratic, wouldn't you say? The widows were not obliged to wait until Jehovah noticed their plight. They were not rebuked for their grumbling.

  SAUL and the DISCIPLES

  The disciples weren't sure how to take the dramatic conversion of Saul. (Acts 9).

  Did Barnabas keep silent in the face of the apostle's skepticism, in order to keep the unity? Did he "wait on Jehovah" for them to see the light? No!

  Barnabas brought Paul before the apostles and described to them all that he had seen Paul do, and how he had put his life in danger for the gospel. The apostles then accepted Paul.

  Barnabas spoke up for an honorable man.

  PAUL EXHORTS THE CORINTHIANS

  He goes on a delightful rant to the Corinthian church to work out minor disputes amongst themselves (1 Corinthians 6).

  SUMMARY

  Now remember, this is the early church, where the Holy Spirit was in daily evidence, and they worked togehter "with one accord" (Acts 2:46). The Christians would never be in as much unity as those early days. Nevertheless, they had disputes. They aired their concerns, and they found their way.

  From these examples, the bible pattern is pretty clear. Air your feelings. Don't bury it, don't hide it, and don't pretend it's not a problem. Get it out in the open, and deal with it.

  And for God's sake, don't wait for Jehovah to take care of it.
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  juni

  Reminds me of a time when a sister and I had it out in the middle of the street after a b. study. Won't go into details. I started walking away from her rantings after I calmly explained my side. She yelled for me to come back. I said no. Even Jesus walked away from disputes when they were ending up in a free for all I said.

  It really pissed her off. But I felt good cause I got my feelings out and to hell w/her if she wanted to stand their and yell and stomp her feet.

  Elders took her "side" because she had been a member of that cong. for a long time and I was relatively new. So I say, "F*** 'em all!"

  Juni
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  Ade

  Confrontation is indeed for Christians, Take Jesus example when being tempted by Satan did he stand there and ignore it all saying "oh well" no he answered wisely, as on many other occasions with many others, especially pharisees and sadducees.
  
  A confusion lies within people causing many to believe that confrontation means, either, a blazing arguement or a literal battle. I believe this to be a time were a true Christian cane shine by showing Jesus qualities. Not becoming heated up, however not covering over the problem, approaching it with wisdom, understanding and love can actually strengthen the relationship between the two sides.
  
  If the aforesaid is put into practice then the next time these individuals face a problem / difference they understand that talking and listening can bring about the desired result.
  
  However the scripture you quoted ( see below ) gives us a true picture and another understanding, a kind of "when its possible" be at peace with all. For not all want to be at peace with us.
  (Romans 12:18 RV) If it be possible, as much as in you lieth, be at peace with all men.
  
  
  GOD bless you all
  Ade
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  agapa37

  agapa's quiet admission to "imperfect men" in the congregation inspired me to finish a small bible study on confrontation, and how the early church handled disputes. It is encouraging to know that I inspired you to finish some bible study, however some of the things you said ( accused ) Jws of practicing are incorrect. That is one of the MAIN reasons why there is so much misconception and understanding about JWS. You said............. We are familiar with the Jehovah's Witness method of peace. Put up and shut up. Don't make any waves. Endure your imperfect brothers for the sake of unity. That is not true. The ORG. does not teach us to handle problems with our brothers and siters that way. Go through the bible based WT that discusss the issue at hand and you will see that it teaches us EXACTLY as you have outline from the bible.

  1. Go directly to your brother to work it out.
  2. If that doesn't work, talk about it with some witnesses present.
  3. If that doesn't work, bring it before the congregation.
  4. If that doesn't work, say good-bye to your friendship.

  We are instructed to do exactly what Jesus said to do when differences arise. Now, there are some who dont do it that way because of various reasons, maybe they dont like to confrontation or they are shy or what ever the reason, but be assured that JWS are taught how to handles differences and disputes the bible way. The princibles you site and examples you gave were excellent. It would be great if EVERYONE ( not just JWS ) followed those excellent princibles, but the reality is that we dont. As you said before jgnat you hate when someone LUMPS in the whole board (remember? ) well please dont do it to the JWS. Jesus said, " Do unto others as you would want done to you."

  The study you did was great and I hope that the ones who read this topic will apply it in thier OWN lives and benefit from it. I know for me it was a good reminder thanks!
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  jgnat

  agapa, I've had enough experience with the elders and the study articles in the past four years to know this is exactly how it works. It is put-up-or-shut-up. I'll post some articles later to illustrate my point. When my hubby had an offence against a brother, he took my advice and went directly to the man about it. The brother immediately called over a few elders and it became an inquisition. By the time everything blew over, a sister had been warned if she ever talked to us again she would never be invited to dinners again. She left the Jehovah's Witnesses shortly after. My husband switched congregations. Dealt with? I think not.
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  fullofdoubtnow

  That is not true. The ORG. does not teach us to handle problems with our brothers and siters that way. Go through the bible based WT that discusss the issue at hand and you will see that it teaches us EXACTLY as you have outline from the bible.

  1. Go directly to your brother to work it out.
  2. If that doesn't work, talk about it with some witnesses present.
  3. If that doesn't work, bring it before the congregation.
  4. If that doesn't work, say good-bye to your friendship

  Agapa, I agree with jgnat on this, and I am an ex jw. I was in the wts for almost 25 years, and I am well aware that they have a set of "rules" for just about every situation that may arise in a congregation. The problem isn't in the lack of instruction, it's in the lack of application. They cover everything but rarely solve anything. My experience, and I've had plenty of it, is that if a brother or sister has a differrence with another brother or sister, they do put up and shut up more often than not. They know the rules, but also know the consequences of applying them - they are thought of as complainers, so they keep quiet.

  It's like a lot of wts policies, it looks good on paper, but is rarely put into practice.
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  AlanF

  Nice post, jgnat.

  One serious violation of the scriptural guidelines in Matthew 18 that the JWs are known for is their organizational policy of ignoring the clear meaning of verse 17, which tells the person to take the matter to the entire congregation (Gr. ecclesia) as the last resort. But Watchtower policy subverts this by telling JWs to take matters to the body of elders. They claim that what Jesus meant was to take the matter to the body of elders who respresent the ecclesia. But there is no indication in the scriptures that this is what Jesus meant. Indeed, at the time Jesus spoke to his Jewish audience, there was no Christian congregation because Christianity did not begin until after Jesus' resurrection. So Jesus' Jewish audience would naturally have understood him to refer to the Jewish ecclesia -- the entire group of local Jews who attended the local synagogue. The extension to Christians is obvious.

  AlanF
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  jgnat

  I would be interested, agapa, if you can find a single example in the Watchtower where they encourage the brothers to first work out an offence amongst themselves. Here are some article examples that illustrate what I mean, put-up-or-shut-up:

  *** w03 2/1 p. 11 "Remain in My Word" ***

  14 An individual needs to make sure that no rocklike obstacles, such as deep-seated bitterness, underlying self-interest, or similar hard but hidden feelings, are lodged in his heart. If such a barrier is already in place, the power exerted by God’s word can break it up. (Jeremiah 23:29; Ephesians 4:22; Hebrews 4:12) Thereafter, prayerful meditation will stimulate an "implanting of the word" deep in the individual’s heart. (James 1:21) This will provide the strength to cope with times of discouragement and the courage to remain faithful despite trials.

  *** w00 6/15 pp. 16-17 Honor the Ones Given Authority Over You ***

  17 Even if something is not handled just the way it should be, should we not have faith in Jesus Christ as the living Head of the Christian congregation? Is he not aware of what is happening in his own worldwide congregation? Should we not respect his way of handling the situation and recognize his ability to control matters? Really, ‘who are we to be judging our neighbor?’ (James 4:12; 1 Corinthians 11:3; Colossians 1:18) Why not bring your concerns before Jehovah in your prayers?

  18 Because of human imperfection, difficulties or problems may arise. There may even be times when an elder errs, causing some to be disturbed. Our acting hastily under such circumstances will not change the situation. It may only serve to aggravate the problem. Those having spiritual discernment will wait on Jehovah to set things straight and administer whatever discipline may be needed in his own time and way.—2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 12:7-11.

  19 What if you feel distressed over some matter? Rather than talking to others in the congregation, why not respectfully approach the elders for help? Without being critical, explain how you have been affected. Always have "fellow feeling" for them, and maintain respect as you confide in them. (1 Peter 3:8) Do not resort to sarcasm, but trust in their Christian maturity. Appreciate any Scriptural encouragement that they may kindly offer. And if it appears that other corrective measures are needed, have confidence that Jehovah will guide the elders to do what is good and right.—Galatians 6:10; 2 Thessalonians 3:13.
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  jgnat

  There's a reason that ancient justice was conducted at the city gates. It was open. It was public. Anyone in the city could listen in on the judgement of the "older ones". Smart people stay straight when everyone's watching.

  As soon as the courts conduct behind closed doors, there can be no justice. We can see this principle in our courts today, where the accused has the right to be judged by a panel of his peers.
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  AlanF

  jgnat quoted from The Watchtower:

  Because of human imperfection, difficulties or problems may arise. There may even be times when an elder errs, causing some to be disturbed. . . Those having spiritual discernment will wait on Jehovah to set things straight and administer whatever discipline may be needed in his own time and way. . . And if it appears that other corrective measures are needed, have confidence that Jehovah will guide the elders to do what is good and right.

  The JWs don't seem to see the gross inconsistency in these words. If Jehovah had anything to do with elders' actions he would not allow them to err or to pervert justice, as they often do, so that anything needed correction. That the elders who comprise every level of the Watchtower hierarchy do these things proves that God has nothing to with the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. The JW concept of "spirit-direction" is nothing but a control mechanism designed to prevent any JW from disputing what elders or JW leaders do.

  AlanF