atrapado

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Posts by atrapado

• 
  266

  There Was No First Human

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

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  atrapado

  cofty you started making harsh remarks in page 5, but I understand your point.

  To be honest I failed to fully understand the video when you posted it. I think if you have some evolution background it makes perfect sence to you. But as someone pointed out earlier for those of us not in your league some parts made no sense.

  For example in the video he states "clearly human" and "clearly not human." And then he jumps to there is no first human. Wait what? If you can clearly tell when you have a human and when you don't why can't you use that critiria to find the first human.

  I see the problem with what I suggested and I think I now understand you guys point.

  The way I would try to explain it is: Any defition of human would be arbitrary. Why? Well lets say you define human and say anybody that fits that definition 98% is human. So you go back in time and find were that started to happen. Isn't the last human you pick also human so why not use his characteristics to find humans. And his parents are so but so close to his characteristic lets assum 99.99*% why stop there. i.e. what would make that defition special, what would make it better than any other definition specially when imidiate generations are almost identical. Another example lets say someone in the future formulates some definition and by that definition you are human but your parents are not. Do you see the problem of trying to make an exact definition of human.

  One thing I'll apologise for is for trying to exchange insults with cofty. IMHO those type of comments you made earlier shutdown dialog, I tried to use sarcasm but that failed. We don't process info at the same rate specially if you know more about a topic so I am sorry I made personal attacks.

  Thank you for the list by the way.
• 
  266

  There Was No First Human

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  atrapado

  Viviane the programs for my customers are much more complex(I written 1000s of programs). When I said I test for injection attacks I was talking about other programs simpler programs that are used by my company. My point with customer's program was that to them is bug-free and that is when we stop coding and debugging.

  Simple sequencial programs outside OS interaction can be showned to be bug-free. All cases are tested and accounted for. So yes you can claim is bug-free. If the program is deterministic and not very complex you can test all cases, finite set so you can test all cases. (If you want to include cosmic rays hitting one of the registers then causing the program to crash, then you are right you cannot acount for that not even with your hello program but is no longer a software bug that would be a hw bug) If the program is non-deterministic or complex enough that is beyond the capacity of the programmer in terms of keeping out with all cases then you are right.

  You can use mathematical proofs to show simple programs are bug-free. While this may be true in principle, it isn't even somewhat true in practice.

  And your claim about "hello world" was after you claim bug-free code is impossible NOT TRUE simple programs can be mathematically showend to be bug-free. I never claim all programs can be bug-free.

  About the filter all I said was I couldn't see why it wouldn't work, not related to bug-free, you guys had made a strong case against the filter idea I wasn't trying to use one to proof the other. You made a claim before even bringing the 'hellow world' example that is not true.

  I don't want to hijack this thread with this so I am done. If you want me to continue replying to this open a new thread or pm me.
• 
  266

  There Was No First Human

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  atrapado

  Viviane Tested it against injection attacks(yes), man in the middle attacks(no network), did boundary testing(yes), looked for race conditions(yes), ensured proper garbage collection(only use languages that don't have gc), memory leaks(yes), made sure all input strings had an enforced format(yes), etc., all with a team of testers(yes). Granted the programms I am talking about are not super complex they are not "hello programs" they are used by the company I worked for and another company. You said we cannot program bug-free programs. Which is false a simple hello program proves you wrong. Sure once a program gets complex enough is not feasible or possible to make it bug-free and once connected to a network all bets are off.

  If you care about my credentials I am a Senior Software Engineer and have been coding for 10+ years professionally UC Berkeley Grad(EECS) the CEO at my company calls me n&k hero because I solved problems other programmers take to long or just cannot. I do consulting on the side. Yous ask my customer why they keep giving me projects(when they have their own software team) they'll tell I have never gone over a dateline and deliver what I promise(I know sounds like a lie, software that meets datelines unheard of). Are those programs bug-free? They might not pass all the tests mention above but there was no need to test that. The enviroment they are in doesn't expose them to those threats(injection attacks and middle attacks). And they would have not paid me any extra if I made sure they passed those tests. If it does exaclty what the customer/specs requested without crashing is bug-free.
• 
  266

  There Was No First Human

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  atrapado

  Well its been a long while since I read a biology book I watched videos and wiki(lately but thats all). So lets assume very basic biology knowelge like High School level. Do you have a series in order (basic to complex).
• 
  266

  There Was No First Human

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  atrapado

  cofty it might not be a personal attack but it adds nothing to you argument and is not an objective observation because I agreed with you very early on the thread I got the video early on so what is your point on doing that if not just to put people down? But I see that you like to assume what others think and jump to what they are thinking. You accused me of not reading what was written, of not thinking about it, of not grasping basic concepts. Why not point out the problem instead of of trying to embarrass? If your goal is to get through people IMHO I would leave those things out. If your point is only to win an argument by all means they are good tools.

  So my idea made no sense to you I get it.
• 
  266

  There Was No First Human

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  atrapado

  cofty " No - page 11 and you STILL haven't a clue." So you call me clueless and that is not a personal attack I can show you more.

  I get the video change happens gradually and change of species happens over a very long time. And that since immediate descendants are the same species no change of species can happen from one individual to the next. And therefore based on this there was no first human.

  So what is the point of a different way? To look at the problem using a different way and see if it make scence. You think that is irrational fine.

  Viviane I have developed bug-free programs and know of many programmers that have done it as well but if you say is impossible I'll take your word for it. The debate goes on if Zeno's paradoxes have been solved. I have agreed with you guys that in practice what I propose is impossible. Fine if my suggestion is pointless fool's errand I get it wont say anymore. I was brainstorming and asking questions and making suggestion see if there was another way even if just in theory.
• 
  266

  There Was No First Human

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  atrapado

  Viviane you jump from theory to "impossible data set to collect." We just don't understand each other.
• 
  266

  There Was No First Human

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  atrapado

  cofty personal attacks are your thing I am just following your example. Don't be so hypocrite.

  You say "A change of a single letter in genome of 3 billion..." are all bits significant? Just because some are and some are not and because we don't understand what change them means doesn't mean there could be a way.

  So we don't know how to read the genome to decide was is human and what is not. Granted. Does that mean there is no way? Lets see 2^3billion is so big that we could say for practical reasons going through all those posibilities is impossible. We might not be able to do it ever. We might never find a way but I failed to see how without a doubt you can say there is no way period.

  All you are saying is "is too hard therefore impossible."
• 
  266

  There Was No First Human

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  atrapado

  cofty exaclty since there is no formal proof that means there might be away if you cannot grasp basic logic well nobody can help you. I am sorry about my spelling typo.
• 
  266

  There Was No First Human

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  atrapado

  Apognophos sucks to debugg without a debugger. And if is a race condition even your log can cause the problem to disappeared turn log off and reapers how fun!

  I don't see anything wrong with your suggestion of redefining species. Maybe that is the problem we are trying to redefine species and that is not the way the game works. We need play by their definitions only otherwise we are cheating.