The scriptures I have shared here on this board is a enough for a spiritual person to examine and see that there is something being said by God. If you can't see anything, don't be concerned about it. It was nice talking to you.
WFTW
Onetruesource
JoinedPosts by Onetruesource
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78
Modern-day Israel's Identity
by Onetruesource ini would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.
the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.
we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.
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78
Modern-day Israel's Identity
by Onetruesource ini would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.
the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.
we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.
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Onetruesource
"Now we speak wisdom among those who are mature, but not the wisdom of this system of things nor that of the rulers of this system of things, who are to come to nothing. But we speak God's wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom, which God foreordained before the systems of things for our glory. This wisdom not one of the rulers of this system of things came to know, for if they had known it they would not have impaled the glorious Lord. But just as it is written: "Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, neither have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him. For it is to us God has revealed them them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God.
For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of man that is in him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God, except the spirit of God. Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God. These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdon, but with those taught by spirit, as with spiritual words.
But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. For "who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, that he may instruct him? But we do have the mind of Christ."
1 Cor. 2:6-16WFTW
Edited by - Onetruesource on 22 August 2000 17:55:55
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78
Modern-day Israel's Identity
by Onetruesource ini would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.
the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.
we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.
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Onetruesource
No, you don't have to believe them or join them to learn what the "REPORT" is all about. If it intrigues you, just order it and read it for yourself. Then you can judge for yourself. Why all the talk about us, when we have offered you the information. If you are to afraid to order it or to cheap to investigate something that has warranted this long discussion, why don't you just order it? We are not in this for the money, but it does cost to distribute it. On a large scale, everything cost. Again if you want to just read it the ordering info is below:
TWMC Publishing
PO Box 11229
Montgomery, AL 36111
$16.95(shipping included)WFTW
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78
Modern-day Israel's Identity
by Onetruesource ini would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.
the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.
we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.
-
-
Onetruesource
Well tfs,
I by no means have any credentials. But, I don’t think I need any. When Jesus did his witnessing, he did not have any credentials. The only thing he had was truth. In fact, that is why he said , “He that is from God, listens to the sayings of God.” John 8:47. And he said, “Everyone on the side of truth listens to my voice.” John 18:37. I am by no means anyone special, but I speak truth. To illustrate the situation of what is required in order to recognize truth, this is what Jesus said at John 10:24-27:
“Therefore the Jews encircled him and began to say to him: “ How long are you to keep our souls in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us outspokenly.” Jesus answered them :” I told you, and yet you do not believe. The works that I am doing in the name of my father, these bear witness about me. But you do not believe, because you are none of my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”You see, sheep within Gods flock does not need credentials. They recognized the voice of that one because of truth. A lover of truth recognizes truth from Gods word. Jesus intentionally did not reveal things to some because he knew they would not listen anyway. That is why he spoke in illustrations. If one cannot recognize the truth, then it is no hope for them.
WFTW
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78
Modern-day Israel's Identity
by Onetruesource ini would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.
the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.
we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.
-
-
Onetruesource
Hello,
I would like to share a “sacred secret” with you. In the book of Revelation, heavenly things are actually earthly things. It is a symbolic book. The new heaven spoken of in 2 Peter 3:13 is really the new governmental structure God will use to bring about rightousness in the earth. In Revelation 12, the woman arrayed with the twelve stars on her head is not in heaven, but on earth. The twelve star represent the twelve sons on Jacob. That’s right, this is “Israel”; Modern-Day Israel. She is about to give birth to a son that will rule the nations with an iron rod. She is in pain, birth pains(an earthly symbol), because of the turmoil that is going on inside of her. Something is about to come out.
This woman is the Modern Day spiritual nation of Israel. She is about to expel a large group of high-level brothers all at one time. These are leading brothers within the organization that are fighting for reform. They see the wickedness in the organization and are trying to change things. They will be expelled. This is the birth of the male child. Jehovah will use this group, after they have been refined, to be the new heavens. Listen to the prophet at Isaiah 66:5-8:
“ “Hear the word of Jehovah, you men who are trembling at his word: “ Your brothers that are hating you, that are excluding you by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!' He must also appear with rejoicing on your part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.”
There is a sound out of the temple! It is the sound of Jehovah repaying what is deserved to his enemies.
Before she began to come into labor pains she gave birth. Before birth pangs could come to her, she even gave deliverance to a male child. Who has heard of a thing like this? Who has seen things like these? Will a land be brought forth with labor pains in one day? Or will a nation be born at one time? For Zoin has come into labor pains as well as given birth to her sons.”Yes, they will be excluded in the name of God. Not knowing what is to come upon them.
WFTW
Edited by - Onetruesource on 13 August 2000 15:30:22
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78
Modern-day Israel's Identity
by Onetruesource ini would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.
the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.
we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.
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-
Onetruesource
These are words of Jesus:
“This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations, because , looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it; and toward them the prophecy of Isaiah is having fulfillment, which says, ‘By hearing, you will hear but by no means get the sense of it; and, looking, you will look but by no means see. For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes; that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back, and I heal them’.”
“However, happy are your eyes because they behold, and your ears because they hear. For I truly say to, Many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things you are beholding and did not see them, and to hear the things you are hearing and did not hear them.” Matt. 13:13-17.
WFTW -
78
Modern-day Israel's Identity
by Onetruesource ini would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.
the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.
we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.
-
-
Onetruesource
Zep,
I Completely misread you. I thought you were one of JW's. That changes everything. That shows you never really new the truth. You never had the faith. You should have because Jehovah used them as a dragnet to find his sheep. Sorry you never responded. But about your assertions of their teaching are not head and shoulder above the rest, I asked you to list any others that could qualify. I'm awaiting................... Jehovah wanted us to have faith. Have you read any of the scriptures that I listed?WFTW
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78
Modern-day Israel's Identity
by Onetruesource ini would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.
the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.
we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.
-
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Onetruesource
Fenchy,
thanks for your incite. No, we do not believe God's words are useless. Many people, because of not seeing God for them, doubt whether he even exist. The fact is prophecy is revealed by Jehovah, not man. And I quote,"Consequently we have the prophetic word [made] more sure; and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and a daystar rises, in your hearts. For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man's will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit." 2 Peter 1:21
So, if you are trying to discredit the scriptures, I believe you should take that up with Jehovah. But, be careful, the scriptures warn to be quick about listening and slow about speaking.
When one's spiritual sences are dulled, they have a hard time hearing. That is why I said, "Read it carefully, prayerfully and humbly." Don't be so quick to speak. Examine these scriptue for yourself. READ the scriptures listed!! Granted, not all will hear, but God’s sheep will. That is why Jesus said,
"Everyone on the side of truth listens to my voice." John 18:37
Don't be so quick to condemn. You might find yourself actually a fighter against God.
"but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them;) otherwise, you may perhaps be found fighters actually against God." Act.5:39WFTW
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78
Modern-day Israel's Identity
by Onetruesource ini would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.
the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.
we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.
-
-
Onetruesource
Hi Dubby,
I am a student of God’s word myself and in no way am the author of this information.
Like you, have been a JW for years. I began to study a publication called the ““ REPORT”- Jehovah’s Witnesses as Modern-Day Israel- Destined to “fall” and be “restored” according to Bible prophecy “. The name is based on a prophecy at Ezekiel 21:6,7. And I quote,“And as for you, O son of man, sigh with shaking hips. Even with bitterness you should sigh before their eyes. And it must occur that, in case they say to you, ‘On account of what are you sighing?’ you must say, “At a report”. ‘For it will certainly come, and every heart must melt and all hands must drop down and every spirit must become dejected and all knees themselves will drip with water. Look! It will certainly come and be brought to occur,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”
I have been told that C.O. Johnson has read the “Report” and wrote a letter saying it was very interesting.
I do believe that Jehovah is revealing new truths at this time for a reason. The long awaited promises from the bible are finally at hand. The WTBTS have the framework of truth, but they never could explain prophecies or understand them. That is why they have had to change them over and or again. That is because much of the prophecies are talking about them unfavorably. The scriptures says,
“ For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with.”- 1 Cor, 13:9,10.
Also, Jesus said ,
“ I have many things yet to say to you, but you are not able to bear them at present. However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things coming.” – John 16:12-13.Knowledge has been incomplete until now. Now we have the big picture and as the Ezekiel says, “every heart must melt and all hands must drop down and every spirit must become dejected and all knees themselves will drip with water.” What Jehovah is doing is almost unbelievable. But it is in his own words. If you and anyone else would like to look at the “Report”, it can be order through :
“TWMC Publishing
P.O.Box 11229
Montgomery AL. 36111”The cost is $16.95(shipping included)
WFTW
Edited by - Onetruesource on 12 August 2000 21:28:16
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78
Modern-day Israel's Identity
by Onetruesource ini would like to open this discussion on israel, because i have come to learn many things about it.
the bible scriptures continue to prophecy about the nation of israel.
we all know that the natural nation has been disowned by jehovah, because unfaithfulness.
-
-
Onetruesource
Okay Zep,
Let's see what kind of proof you want. When you became one of Jehovah's Witnesses, what convinced you of the truth? I ask because I need to know how you think. Different things convinced all of us differently. For me,learning of the paridise from the bible was a start, but it was the prophetic books that impressed me and caused me to make a conviction. Even though much of it was not fully understood, just seeing that Jehovah was telling us what would happen impressed me. We all need different proofs. We all have to realize that JW's do have more of the truth than any other Christian religion. I guest, but I would think that 95% of Christians believe in the Trinity,burning hell, and no paradise. What do you think?
Zep you said, “VERY generalistic lines of evidence are simply not enough to prove to me that Dubs are the "Truth". First all, you have just belittle a few very important things to Jehovah. Centurys ago Jehovah said, “And they must place my name upon the sons of Israel, that I myself may bless them.” It was the placing of this particular name upon the Jewish nation that brought special blessings upon them. In fact, it was the placing of the name upon ancient Israel , in itself, that made them a special people for his possession. The placing of God’s personal name upon the Jewish nation proved to be the single most outstanding characteristic that identified them as “His people,” “His inheritance,”- it identified them as being “Israel.” Some today, do not fill the his name is that important. Not even the Jews saw the full appreciation for it. They thought they knew Jehovah, but did not. That is why Jesus in the midst of the Jews said, “ I have made your name known to them and will make it known”.(John 17:26) The Jews did not really know Jehovah. If they did, his name would have been put on high and they would have identified Jesus. You obviously do not see the significance of Jehovah’s name. For Jehovah’s name to be called upon anyone is a great honor and responsibility. But you have belittled that significance. You obviously don’t know Jehovah the way you should. He is fear inspiring and a Jealous God. For someone to carry that name carries a blessing or a curse, depending on how they display it. It was said of the Jews, “The Name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” (Romans 2:24) Carrying Jehovah’s name is no small matter.
None the less here are my three lines of evidence: coupled with what has already been said. This is only a small attempt to explain.1) process of elimination
2) comparison with what made the nation of Israel God's people
3) Prophecy that describe his people in the last days.1)
We can all see that the bible does talk about Israel in the last days right? We also know the natural nation has been abandoned by Jehovah, right?(Matt 23:37,38) Okay, who is, who could it be, and how can we identify them? If you look throughout the world in search of Israel according to the scriptures, who would you find. THEY must believe in Jehovah as the ONLY true God and carry that name upon themselves(Isaiah 43:6,7). As the natural Jews were called by that name. They were distinguished by their affiliation with that name. Right? THEY cannot use idols in worship, for Jehovah hates that. Right? Okay, that’s our starting point. Let’s narrow our choices down. Who could be on this list? Name them.2)
The nation of Israel became officially God’s people when? 1512BCE. When they made a vow to take that name and live up to the laws of Jehovah. With the mediation of Moses, they all took that vow.(EX. 24:7) That is when they became his special possesion. Sad to say, they failed miserably to remain in Jehovah’s favor. But, by them taking that name upon themselves, they took on that responsibility. But it is that public vow that made the difference. When Jesus died he mediate the covenant that brought the christian congregation into the same relationship. When the apostles died the Christian congregation was dispersed. But prophecies were not filled yet. These things had to come about through spiritual Israel. But who would spiritual Israel be? First of all, a people that believed according to the truth.(the same belief the the original Christians had). They did not understand everything(1 Cor. 13:9). JW’s made a public aknowledgement to except and up hold Jehovah’s standards in 1931. And they have been identified by that name since. They teach the same "basic" framework of truth that Jesus disciples They do not understand everything, but they are God’s name people. They ALSO, have failed miserably to honor Jehovah’s name. That does not change the fact that they are God’s people any less than the natural Jews were.3)
Isaiah 2:1-4 shows what will happen when persons begin to flock to the mountain of the house of Jehovah, but the verses following tells who is else being discussed(Isa.2:5-9). There are two houses being discussed. The mountain of the house of Jehovah(verse 2,3) and the house of Jacob(verse 5,6). The men in the house of Jacob leave their house because of corruption.(Isa.2:5-9) These ones flock to the mountain of the house of Jehovah to be instructed about his ways(They should have already known, but didn’t). But notice that they flock from the house of Jacob!!. What is the house of Jacob? This is ISRAELl !!!!! in the last days!!! Yes Israel in the last days is being abandoned. Why? They have become corrupt.(Isa.2:5-9) Yes. Again!!! The nation of Israel has become just like the natural nation , CORRUPT!!!!. JW’s leadership is becoming more and more like the soiled worldly religions, Corrupt!! Other prophecies show how bad it WILL get!! This is one scriptural prophecy about Israel in the last days. Read it carefully, prayerfully, and humbly. These are Jehovah’s own words.WFTW
Edited by - Onetruesource on 11 August 2000 21:57:24