had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
Hi Lion Cask
If they want to think I am earlier posters that is their choice.
If they call me debator I will answer. If they call me by other names I am unlikely to spot that it is me they are wanting a reply from.
Now have you got any points on the actual topics under discussion?
had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
ad hominem attacks as rebuttal! none worth replying too.
lion cask if you find ad hominem attacks as better arguments and completely ignoring the points actually raised then who really is not facing reality?
Jookbeard "appeal to emotion" is equally a weak argument. Your hearsay account gives only the briefest info with only your emotive spin on it.
had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
Hi wasblind
I do not come on here much and I was getting to you.
I answered your question earlier to others. Uninspired writings are allowed as a practical application of the administration of the congregation and to highlight when bible principle is applied to modern cultural issues and prophecy fulfilment recognition. I quoted scriptures earlier that show this.
We in our imperfection do preach, teach and apply bible scripture and so uninspired works show this but they have to conform to Bible teaching and principle which I fully support that the publications we use do although not infallible hense why they do get refined a lot. Every application of principle or prophecy is checkable against the bible scripture it is derived from.
The Bible and Jesus gave the shepherds a certain amount of autonomy of administration it is simply practical to write them down as both the greek and hebrew scriptures acknowledge.
It's always recognising that it is only God's word that is inspired and our uninspired publications are there as supportive but remain subject to error and refinement. You know this on here and that is why anti-witnesses have such fun pointing out the changes of teaching as our biblical knowledge grew as a religion emerging from the apostasy.
I wouldn't be a witness If they weren't capable of refinement and acceptance of imperfection but that in no way relieves us of have to be united in teaching concerning the Bible.
had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
Hi jookbeard
I think whichever way of expelling someone for division was used you would quibble.
The greek scriptures are very clear that division isn't an option for Christians.
You say only voicing "an opinion" but the fruitage is always far-reaching and has consequences. We have to be responsible for the words that come out of our mouths and were they lead. Some words have caused wars and sent people to their deaths and allowed others to be neglected.
Before you become a Jehovah's witnesses you have the chance to test their teachings against all other religions that are on offer and more importantly against the measure for all Religions (especially those claiming to be Christian) which is God's word the Bible.
For me there was no contest. Jehovah's witnesses have a Bible clarity no other religion or personal opinion even comes close too, right down to our insistence on unity of the flock.
Also this site and those lost sheep on it actually gives me further proof.....What happens to all those doubters and stumbled ones on here? The only thing you now agree upon is your negativity over witnesses, all else is a blur of whatever wind of teaching appeals to you whether it be atheism, mysticism, paganism, trinitarianism, anti-establishment or personal preference etc.
On here the fruitage of your choices has led you to disunity of any common held belief or teaching beyond your rejection of Witnesses.
Most threads and forum on here are simply reaffirming your negativity over Witnesses. This is your common ground between each other. I see no other on here.
And if all Jehovah's Witnesses disappeared tomorrow what would you all do? What would you talk about? Where would you go? Except your separate ways as suddenly the reason that connects you all is gone and the lack of any common held belief between you means there is no longer anything to keep you together.
Division again is your fruitage on here.
had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
Hi huffnung.
The hope is life it always has been. Whether it is on earth or in heaven the life is the same as opposed to the death we inherited from Adam's sin.
I used scriptures but you refuse to accept that there has to be harmony between Hebrew and Greek scriptures.
I suppose you believe we will all be kings and priests in heaven ruling over a few cows and sheep on the now defunct earth?
"The meek shall inherit the earth" Jesus 's words supporting and quoting psalms from the hebrew scriptures showing the harmony and agreement.
How do you explain that?
Your trying to say that we cannot have some people on earth and some in heaven but the Bible doesn't support your stance.
Matthew 6:9 onwards a prayer we are all familiar with. In this Jesus talks praying for his father's Jehovah's will to be done on earth as it has in heaven. Are you saying this is a lie or that we are praying for earth to be empty or destroyed?
Theology if it is just constructed from one or two scriptures as you have done without checking it against what the Bible teaches as a whole is how the majority of contradictions are made.
The promises for the earth are a biblical fact that we have to address. We do not use scripture to cancel other scriptures out. We have to find a harmonious teaching that fits all the scriptures involved.
had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
Hi jookbeard
The principle of Division! applies. We are meant to be in agreement as a functioning flock.
You can see an example of this in Action in the Greek scriptures. When the apostles and Older men (shepherds) had to make a decision on circumcism of gentiles, not all agreed and had already started circumcising gentiles but this was creating division of teachings and had to be addressed. So they came to a group decision as the shepherds, that gentiles didn't need to be circumcised and enforced that decision which meant those that disagreed had to agree whether they liked it or not.
If you don't like this biblical fact of avoiding division and those who create them your argument is with the Bible not us.
If you want to see the fruitage of what happens to the flock when each person goes off and believes any old idea/teaching just look at Christendom! Fractured by it's constant changing doctrines and divisions.
had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
Hi butterfly
We are not meant to use the bible alone. We are supposed to be a flock learning together.
If you cannot even get that right what are your chances with the rest of the Bible?
had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
Hi hoffnung
Interesting you quote heavily symbolic Revelation then try to say it is literal. "they will see his face" by your reckoning then the next part must be literal too. Will God then get indelible ink and write his name on their foreheads?
Apparently Jacob saw God "face to face?
Psalms talk about God turning his face away from them after a time when people could see/have his face towards them.
This is always used figuratively in the Bible so to apply literalness to it in revelation is extremely biblically dishonest.
had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
Hi huffnung
Actually Pauls words do when he talks of "Creation" awaiting the firstfruits.
Since the Greek Scriptures is specifically dealing with the anointed who have the heavenly calling to be Kings and priests "Co-heirs" with Jesus to his Father then earthly hope would take a backseat but it is still referred. John in Revelation mentions it and Jesus does as well as Paul.
But I am still wondering why you keep slicing and dicing the bible into parts? that is not how it works.
Does a teaching only get credit by you if it is mentioned in a specific number of Bible books? and if not you feel you can happily delete it from the Bible?
Interesting way to address the Bible! I have never seen it as a Cut-n-Paste!
had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .
is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?
:-).
Hi Listener
Thats exactly what they do. They have Never claimed inspiration for publications outside of the Bible. They have only ever said current understandings and they have always said they need refining constantly.
Giving credit to God for the ability to interpret and undertsand his words and apply his principles into modern cultural settings which is one of our publications functions. Is fine and not a sin.
Your accusations only fit if we do claim inspiration for our publications as Jehovah's witnesses this last 100+ years But we do not and never have claimed inspiration!
So stop trying to construct a claim and putting your own spin on the wording.
