several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
My words don't belong to you and you don't get to pretend they mean something so you can falsely change them to make whatever point you are attempting.
When you decide to make a point without being dishonest about what I said, then you are welcome to discuss this again.
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several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
Viviane,
You said,
Then I don't understand what your point is. Mine is that they clearly have some reasoning and logic skills, then demonstrate astoundingly poor use of those skills.
This is a nice way of saying they are stupid. Even so, "an astoundingly poor use of those skills" may be their choice and not a mental ailment. I argue that it is their choice.
Leave them be.
Convincing someone of something they choose to not want to know is an exasperating exercise.
The majority of religous folk fall in this category....
Leave them be.
The truth is not for everyone.
Maat
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
Maat13, you're basically claiming they have no reasoning skills or are mentally undeveloped, yet they can display a high level of reasoning skills and abilities in other areas of their life. I'm not buying that.
Viviane,
I'm not claiming any of the items you mentioned here. So I can understand why you don't buy it.
Maat
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
It's unfortunate but it is also a reality that there are many people who do not have the ability to reason logically, nor correlate a series of ideas. However, they do have the capacity to feel, imagine and believe. For these types of people we must show both empathy and sympathy. Leave them be.
Two JW's came to my door the other day. My eyes lit up. I was ready to tell the everything concerning the history of their organization and why Russell really wrote "The Divine Plan of the Ages" and why Rutherford went in the opposite direction and how their entire organization was started with financing from drug money.
But instead I asked them a simple question. "Are you happy with what you are doing?" they said "YES!" in unison.
I was once happy being a JW. Until.
JW's and other religious people will only attract and bring into their organization like minded individuals.
They will say the same thing about us logical and rational folk.
The difference is that we (me) will always understand why 2+2=4 and they will always believe 2+2 = 5.
We must show consideration for our fellow human beings.
Maat
this is a pop quiz.
this quiz will test your deep knowledge of jehovah's witnesses.. the question will be immediately followed by the source of the answer and the answer itself.. please test yourself by stopping after the question and thinking about how you would answer.
before reading the answer.
Excellent post...
And just in case some folks are wondering....
A $950 million dollar empire has staying power.... And for many "resistance is futile".
Maat
ever had this thought about an upcoming movie?.
and then i would feel guilty for putting my entertainment desires ahead of god's kingdom.. .
shameless!.
JustVisiting
excellent analogy in showing similarities between Star War and the JW's. Keep going...now apply it the Catholic Church....
Maat
this week we have mention of the 12 tribes of israel in the bible study.
we have the same thing mentioned in the wt this week.
12 apostles are also mentioned (need to double check that one).
this week we have mention of the 12 tribes of israel in the bible study.
we have the same thing mentioned in the wt this week.
12 apostles are also mentioned (need to double check that one).
many of the recent changes in the jehovah's witness organization are a clear sign of a cult that is struggling for survival.
the internet has change the scenario in a very dramatic way.
many of us who for years struggled alone with doubts and cognitive dissonance thinking that we were the only ones, that we, as individuals were the issue, now know that there is a large community of individuals who see the organization as what it is, a mind controlling cult that is not only false, but also dangerous.. the governing body clearly understands the consequences of this awakening.
I haven't followed much the watchtowers activity since leaving. But are they now accepting 15min interval field service times? Wow. i remember a time shortly after being consider a "publisher" I had a conversation with an elder that went something like this:
elder: hey Maat how is it going? How is the family?
me: great, things have been real hard with the new baby and the young one.
elder: i understand, keep doing all you can to give praise to Jehovah.
me: yes I am doing all that I can.
elder: by chance did you turn in your field service report for last month at the meeting today?
me: you know I forgot I had to hurry after meeting. My time was ( I dont remember the exact number) and 15 minutes.
elder: ok thanks, just record the WHOLE hours only. Not the 15 minutes.
me: (confused)...what about the 15minutes?
elder: the society only wants us to report in whole hours. Take that 15minutes and add it to 45 minutes next month.
me: why? That would technically be a lie on my monthly report because I'm reporting time from this month on next month's report. I thought the society wanted accurate reporting? many people with 15minutes adds up to many hours of total time over the course of year.
elder: that's how the society wants it.
me: OK
After this conversation, a seed was planted. A simple question was imbedded into my mind. "If these men are asking me to lie about my time in the ministry, then what else will I be asked to be untruthful about?"...
I'm on this board because I found many other things that just didn't sit well....
Maat
