No good news to report

by gringojj 27 Replies latest jw friends

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  BrendaCloutier

  Mrs GringoJJ

  You have a wonderful husband that loves you very very much. I have come to respect his love for his family, and his wonderful wit!

  I appreciate your fear of "what if they are right?" especially with children.

  The sad thing is, they are not right. I was a teen when Armageddon was supposed to hit in or shortly after 1975. I was pulled from HS to go into the ministry in 1973. Armageddong didn't happen. If you ask the average JW, most don't remember. It will take someone in their late 40's or 50's to remember that debacle. It was a WT article in 1967 that published the date, along with other publications. The information is here under the Best Of section. Also, you may wish to check out www.quotes.watchtower.ca for more WTBTS information on 1975. There was a man on the GB that started the slogan "Staying alive until '75!".

  And that is just the latest of failed predictions that date all the way back to 1874.

  Check out Deut. 18:20-22. But of course JW's and the WTBTS claim NOT to be prophets, yet they claim to be the mouthpeice of Jehovah. Is'nt tha what a prophet is? If they are the mouthpeice of Jehovah, how is it that they are wrong on Armageddon? What do they keep coming up with "new light" to cover up their "old light"?

  I don't doubt that things in the world seem, and are, really bad right now. Part of that is that we now have instant communication around the world and know within minutes of the things happening. The world has had bad times in our past, too. WWII was horrible. WWI combined with the Spanish Influenza was devastating. And these things happened in the worlds history too, with the black plague, the crusades, etc.

  But the wars and rumor of wars, pestilence, etc., as set out in revelations has been a regular occuarance on our planet for centuries! Millenia! That is part of the nature of this marvolous living planet we inhabit. Wars Pestilence Disease, all relate to the Humans here,... not to the animals. I believe it's a human's perspective.

  I appreciate your fear and confusion. Especially now that your mother is coming to take you to your new congregation. Keep your eyes and mind open. You will see and hear what you need to.

  With loving respect

  Brenda Cloutier
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  kid-A

  Dear Mrs. Gringo:

  I greatly empathize with what you must be going through right now. I have been there myself. We all pass through a phase leaving the JWs when our mind is in a fierce state of denial. It enters a "self-preservation" mode where we will grasp at anything to salvage all the delusions and fantasies that the watchtower organization fed us all those years to control our minds. This is a normal reaction. But please realize, even though these "feelings" are real, they are not based on any concrete reality. There are no demons, no supernatural forces that can harm you....these are bogeymen invented by religion to try to enslave our minds and hearts. Anybody who tries to use these illusions to gain control over you is not acting out of love, they are acting out of a desperate attempt to maintain their power and control over you.

  The guilt you are feeling is not justified, these feelings are just your minds reactions to the illusory boundaries that the JWs have established in your mind. Again, this is not real.

  All that is real is your LOVE for your husband and children....that is eternal....the watchtower organization and its mind control techniques can and must be conquered. I wish both of you great success in whatever path you choose.
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  GermanXJW

  Take a look at next Sunday's Watchtower and give somer undermining remarks. Sorry, I do not know any specifics.
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  johnny cip

  hi mrs, gringo. all i can say is i was forced to go to the kh in the 60-70's i was told every day about 1975 and or the generation of 1914. me and my siblings got the crap knocked out of us at the hall for not sitting straight for 2 hours. i was never to finish junior high school. i heard it all. in the name of jehovah!!!!!!!! well 30 years later my dad is still a jw. but now i'm older and smarter. dad tried to witness to me about 5 yrs ago . and i did research this time. i pulled out his old bound volumes from the late 60's and went over how they said 75. and all kinds of other flip flops. he denied them all. at one point i told him . you used to preach this shit to us kids every day. 1000's of times. now your going to stand there and lie to my face. he just stood there looking like a dope. then an other day i had my 4 siblings as witnesses all stand infront of my dad and say they all heard him preach all these lioes in the name of jehovah 1000's of times. so using bible principals of the 2 witness rule. he is a liar. i could type for days and tell stories. the last one wa that my dad called the police on my younger brother a month ago. because dad was losing an arguement about the wt. well i went over to help my brother and my dad had me arrested. all because my dad's a cry baby. and can't accept the fact that he gets caught in lie after lie defending his idol the wtbts. good luck john
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  tall penguin

  Dear Mrs. Gringo,
  Thank you for sharing your comments with us. As I mentionned earlier I can really relate to you. Even when I started to fade earlier in the year there was still the "what if I'm wrong?" fear. It's hard to over-ride years and decades of indoctrination. I saw the "War of the Worlds" movie this past summer and it kicked up all my Armageddon fears. It's amazing how reflexive these responses are. It takes time to repattern this. Please be patient with yourself.
  Your comments about not wanting to hurt your mother resonate with me. As I've commented before, the fear of leaving the organization is often more a fear of leaving the parent who's in that we've been most affected by in our lives, often negatively. It's the search for unconditional love. If your mom is anything like mine, her love was conditional on how good a "Christian" (jw) I was. It was only when I told her that I was disassociating that she told me that she loved me unconditionally. It was the first time I'd heard it in my life of 31 years. It brought tears to my eyes. Those words are being challenged now. She is still talking to me though. Yet our relationship is changing as I'm becoming more independent and creating better boundaries. For the first time ever, I am becoming healthy in my relationship with her.
  I chose to enter therapy and it has helped me tremendously. The main thing is for you to get the support to stand up for what you believe in your heart and soul. To come into your own and feel good about who you are. This is a lesson that most jw's don't learn in the organization, where individuality is sacrificed for conformity. I can't tell you how wonderful it is to finally be getting my feet underneath me.
  You mentionned panic attacks. I too had those while in the org. My health, now that I'm out, is greatly improved. People remark about how I look the best they've ever seen me. I feel like I'm back in my body and have a great future ahead of me with so many possibilities. Give it time. You can do this. I believe in you.
  Your husband is a great source of support. Rely on him to help you through this. And as for your kids, be as honest with them as you can. Tell them you haven't got everything figured out but that you love them and will support them through this time of change.
  My thoughts and prayers are with you.
  tp
• 

  Lady Lee

  Hello Mrs gringo

  I was hoping you would come out of hiding

  A couple of things

  my mother says .... thats what you have to do for the truth....suffer....

  Actually what Christ says is that the load is "light". Not so heavy and burdensome that you are meant to suffer.

  I used to have panic attacks when i was attending meetings i havent had one since not attending,i still have exterme anxiety from worry and fear but no panic attacks....hm....go figure

  Not exactly a "light" load is it? And that doesn't even begin to address all the meeting times and studying times and service times and watching your back times.

  ---

  Your husband said the following in the first post here:

  But the jws came knocking on our door the other day. She said she had been praying for a few weeks now to jehovah saying that if it was the true religion to send some jws to our door.

  And then you said:

  the other day a born again christian approched me by my local post office and asked me if i was interested in attending his church.

  Hmmmmmm Not that I am advocating running off to another church and he didn't coem to your door but I see this as a Hmmmmm moment.

  Hang in there. Get through the visit with your mother and then sit down to do more research and find what you need.

  WTS imposed guilt just sucks
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  M*A*S*H

  Hi Miss G

  I'm kind of envious, it seems you have people climbing over themselves to help! It just goes to show the Internet can be a wonderful thing.

  It was nice to see your last post, but it also worried me a little... I think (if I understood correctly) that you are not currently baptized, but are thinking of taking that step? In my experience, from within the organization, baptism is seen as a wonderful and all important step in your 'spiritual growth'. I expect that your mother is also encouraging this move to baptism, from her point of view as believer, such a move could potentially save your life. Her insistence is understandable.

  It's important to remember being baptized as a JW means dedicating yourself to the organization as well as God. Once baptized if you choose to leave the organization voluntarily or are ever disfellowshipped (DFS), all ties will be severed. Your mother (and other Witness family and friends) will have to sever ties with you. My family is currently in this situation, I can't stress enough how heart-breaking it is. My sister is DFS, every week she drops her children around to see our mother (still a witness)... every week she gets upset because she never makes it past the garden gate. She gets even more upset because she can't help our mother as age and ill health catch up with her. It's truly terrible.

  Going back a bit... I really feel for you at this time, it truly can be scary. It must be even more intense for you, as your decision is also your children's. With time I found that my fears, those that lurked in the back my mind, disagreed with my more rational thought. When ever I got scared, I desperately tried to rationalize what I was scared of... sometimes it worked, sometimes I'd lay awake for hours worrying. All that's changed now is it 'works' 99% of the time. :)

  I hope you, your husband and children all enjoy the family holiday. I think the scariest thing on Halloween, is how much I enjoyed myself - especially dressing up as a grebly and scaring my nieces and nephews! There's much to see and do...
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  GentlyFeral

  Mrs. Gringo, welcome!

  In addition to "proving them wrong", via resources like the Quotes site, you can also look to worldly sources - not so much to disprove Jehovah's Witnesses as to expose and examine the nature of cults. Because cults are remarkably consistent in their methods of control, no matter what doctrines they believe. The best resource I know of is Steve Hassan's book, Combatting Cult Mind Control. I read it in my last JW days, looking for contrasts - and of course I found none.

  But besides "proving them wrong," you need to find out "what is right" too. If Armageddon is not coming, what will happen instead? Is the world really falling apart? Or are there enough bright spots to make living worthwhile? (My favorite resource on this issue is Ode Magazine. You can "make sure of all things" - address every issue on your list, and many more - by looking at the work of real scholars in the world.

  • Halloween: Ontario Consultants for Religious Tolerance
  • Satan: The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels
  • "Suffering for the truth": The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen
  • And here's one that I haven't read yet, but am really looking forward to: The Sins of Scripture: Exposing the Bible's Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love, by John Shelby Spong

  Of course, you don't have to read all of these now. Take it slow. You're in for a wild ride with plenty of shiny glittery stuff in it. Remember to stop and eat the roses.*

  gently feral
  *Sorry - Gary Larson fan :)