Jesus or Satan ?

carla

The Michael changes post reminded me, how many times have the wt confused Jesus with Satan? I know there are a few where first they said the person was Jesus then Satan then back again to Jesus. Anyone know of a complete list? thanks, carla

defd

Carla I woul;d like to see that one myself. I HIGHLY doubt that you will find any.

D.

Narkissos

I am not an expert of WT doctrinal history, but there are a few cases in which they (currently, I think) attribute to Satan a number of Bible items which are usually ascribed to God... Not that they are alone in doing so, but it is an ultra-minoritary (and often sectarian) stance. E.g. the Bethlehem star in the Magi story (Matthew 2); the leaven and the mustard seed (Matthew 13//). It would be interesting to see if the WT doctrine on those has varied in time, which is quite likely.

Otoh, there is the famous flip-flop on the "superior authorities" in Romans 13 which have been explained first (?) as Jehovah and Jesus Christ (notably during WWII), then as the secular governements (subject to Satan according to the generic WT doctrine) -- the later explanation being closer to the context (Roman authorities).

AK - Jeff

Otoh, there is the famous flip-flop on the "superior authorities" in Romans 13 which have been explained first (?) as Jehovah and Jesus Christ (notably during WWII), then as the secular governements (subject to Satan according to the generic WT doctrine) -- the later explanation being closer to the context (Roman authorities).

Good point Nark. I remember wondering for years, how, if God was directing the organization, something that most 7 year olds could interpret clearly, was so misconstrued for 30 years by the WTBTS. The context of Romans 13 seems clear to any who read it. I have never met a single person in any other religion who thought it meant anything but the governments. And according to the WTBTS all these religions are under Satan. How did Satan have it right, when God's people had it wrong.?

Jeff

defd

Can anyoneone show me an article where the Slave once said the superior auth. were Jehovah and Jesus? Id like to see it.

AK - Jeff

Give me a sec - looking it up

Narkissos

Here's for a start: http://quotes.watchtower.ca/superior_authorities.htm

defd

I look that up. It didnt say that Jesus or Jehovah were thought to be the superior auth. It said the political Governments

AK - Jeff

"SUBJECTION TO THE SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES"

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The apostle Paul, a lawyer by profession prior to his becoming a zealous Christian minister, with great force points out the pre-eminent position of true superior authorities in God’s government over his servants. Paul writes, "Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God." (Rom. 13:1, NW) These last words, "for there is no authority except by God," are proof conclusive that the "superior authorities" Paul is speaking of could not refer to the political powers of the Caesar governments. In the Scripture at Revelation 13:2, NW, the Bible specifically states that Satan is the one who has empowered and authorized the old world Caesars. Hence the "superior authorities" in Romans chapter 13 which God commissions includes only the theocratic ruling authorities and excludes Caesar’s authorities.

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The Bible clearly identifies these truly superior authorities. First of all, Jehovah God himself, who resumes his sovereign control as to affairs of the earth, is the chief theocratic authority. Of his administrative kingship it is written, "Praise Jah, you people, because Jehovah our God, the Almighty, has begun to rule as king." (Rev. 19:6, NW; Dan. 7:13) Then, too, the Scriptures say, "Shall we not much more subject ourselves to the Father of our spiritual life and live?" (Heb. 12:9, NW) The second in command and the remaining "superior authority" is the consort King Christ Jesus, of which Peter writes, "Have honor for the king." Paul confirms this matter by speaking of the great name or lofty office which God gave to Jesus when he raised him to the superior position as a consort authority. "Keep this mental attitude in you which was also in Christ Jesus. For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."—1 Pet. 2:17; Phil. 2:5, 9-11 and Rev. 11:15, NW.

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Christians in this twentieth century readily bend the knee in acknowledgment as inferiors that Jehovah and Christ Jesus are the ones to whom they render primary subjection and which divine authorities have the right to lay duties and obligations upon them. Paul continues to say, "The existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God." (Rom. 13:1, NW) Here again is proof that these are the "theocratic superior authorities", because it is written that "God has set the members in the body, each one of them, just as he pleased". Therefore a dedicated Christian delights to be obedient at all points in loyal loving subjection, and such is of concern to every servant of God.—1 Cor. 12:18, NW.

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To these theocratic superior authorities are entrusted great sanctioning powers of punishment. They have power of execution of judgment upon all opposers. Warning of this fact Paul next writes, "Therefore he who ranges himself up against the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves. For those ruling are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the evil. Do you, then, want to have no fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; for it [the authority] is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing evil, be in fear: for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword; for it [the authority] is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath [sanctions of punishment] upon the one practicing evil." (Rom. 13:2-4, NW) Truly it is an extremely serious relationship to be brought into as an inferior under God’s theocratic organization. Never must it be forgotten that evil deeds, gross unfaithfulness and opposition to God’s theocratic governmental authorities bring fearful consequences.

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The above quotations from Paul’s letter to the Romans could never have applied to the political powers of Caesar’s world as wrongly claimed by the clergy of Christendom. The Caesars of this world have never demonstrated by their deeds that they are ‘God’s ministers to you for good’. Rather, exactly to the contrary, the Caesars have done evil by persecuting God’s faithful servants. One needs only to cite the brief facts how in the Western countries between 1933 and 1946 thousands of conscientious Christians were persecuted, mobbed and unjustly imprisoned for obeying God rather than men. For example, during those years men and women, Jehovah’s witnesses, to the number of 1,600 were imprisoned in Britain; 10,000 were packed off to concentration camps by Hitler in Germany; and in the United States, 20,000 arrests and imprisonments were effected in addition to at least 1,500 mobbings. Since 1946 Russia has become notorious by imprisoning and banishing thousands of the Christian witnesses of Jehovah. It has turned out exactly as Jesus foretold. Just as Caesar and his religious allies persecuted Jesus, so modern Caesar and his religious supporters have a black record of persecuting modern Christians.—John 15:20.

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Paul proceeds to strengthen his legal counsel by discussing the primary motive for a Christian’s being in subjection to theocratic superior authorities. He shows that the compelling motive is not only that of avoiding the wrath of punishment at the hands of God’s government but the more powerful force in us, that of our conscientious love for righteousness, our deep love for Jehovah our Great Benefactor. Paul says, "There is therefore compelling reason for you to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath [sanctions of punishment] but also on account of your conscience." (Rom. 13:5, NW) Conscience is that faculty of the mind by which the human creature realizes and distinctly perceives or appreciates that the course of action taken by him is right or wrong. The Christian’s conscience having long been trained from the Word of God knows fully what God’s will is and what is the right thing to do to please his heavenly Master. Thus out of our warm love for God which our consciences are constantly bathed with, the Christian unhesitatingly keeps himself in total subjection to Jehovah and his theocratic governing authorities.

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To emphasize this matter of conscience, Paul next gives an illustration of right motive. "For that is why you are also paying tribute." The "tribute" mentioned is that of paying taxes to Caesar. Years before Paul’s time, Jesus had settled this issue of paying "tribute" or taxes to Caesar (see paragraphs 3 and 4); so Paul unhesitatingly cited this example of right motive out of a clear conscience as an obvious course. Reverting now to his main subject, Paul argues: "For they [the theocratic authorities] are God’s public servants constantly serving this very purpose. Render to all their dues, to him who calls for tribute [Caesar’s taxes levied on persons and land estates], the tribute; to him who calls for tax [Caesar’s taxes on commercial and personal items], the tax; to him who calls for fear [respect for prominent persons in both God’s and Caesar’s organization], such fear; to him who calls for honor [Peter says, ‘Honor men of all kinds’], such honor."—Rom. 13:6, 7 and 1 Pet. 2:17, NW.

6/15/1952 Watchtower Pages 375-381

defd

I did read that and never knew that we once felt that way about that scripture. We were wrong. However now we are understandung it accurately. Thank God they are humble enough to stand corrected and change. Thanks

Jesus or Satan ?

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