by logansrun 61 Replies latest jw friends
I think they are harmless to the world in general but I think they cause a lot of harm to people within - child abuse, broken futures, broken marriages, split families.
I certainly wouldnt advocate anyone joining them on the basis that they were mostly harmless.
Nice thread
Well summed up by katiekitten
Thanks
Eyeslice
Over all, they have limited effect on the world, as you say. In that respect they are pretty harmless.
However, they encourage depression, mental illness and worst of all, wreck families. Of course, these are not overt
and explicit policies - except perhaps for endless warnings about "associations" and commands to shun non-compliant family
members.
I'd be more worried about Islam - but then Islam is not my background.
metatron
Just a quick note on your rather peculiar terminology which can be used to arrive at morally confusing conclusions. The distinction between "the macro level" and "the micro level" sounds very much like the distinction between "totalinarianism" and "individualism".
As a person coming from a post-totalitarian state I get anxious when hearing the "macro" argument. It smacks of cynical totalitarianism.
Using the "macro level" argument I can argue that the David Korash cult was much less harmful than the WTS.
BTW, I wonder what is the estimated number of ex-witnesses?
Pole
Pole,
It's obvious that one has to measure a group's effect not just on individuals, but on the total aggregate of individuals in a society. My post was primarily aimed at those who erroneously believe that the JWs pose a great threat to the non-JW segment of society.
B.
meta,
However, they encourage depression, mental illness and worst of all, wreck families.
Please explain how the Society encourages "mental illness."
Also, don't you think you could put some qualifiers in your statement? For instance, perhaps change "wreck families" to "wreck some families." And, of course, there are anecdotal experiences of people who claim that the JWs saved their family/marriage. What would you say to them?
B.
Please explain how the Society encourages "mental illness."
This subject is too comprehensive to answer in a post. The answer to this question can be found in "Jehovah's Witnesses and the Problem of Mental Illness," by Dr. Jerry Bergman (1992). Dr. Bergman does an excellent job of answering this question from the standpoint of a professional working in the field of mental illness.
There is no question that the Society not only encourages mental illness, but that they "impose" it on people as well. The "Society" is a sham; someone somewhere is living an incredible lifestyle at the expense of the Great Crowd of pigeons who support these jerks.
LR - Good thread.
I would have to agree in basic principle that you are correct. Of course, once the micro-level society is harmed, that may at times translate to the macro-level. HIdden child abuse will eventually effect society in whole. Lower education levels will affect society as a whole, perhaps even robbing society of a genius and his/her contributions. Etc. But of course any micro society will have it's minor effects within the macro. After all, all macro society is made of a quilt of micro societies isn't it?
Cults in general do not contribute to a healthy society in the end macro. But then niether do lazy people, drug addicts, welfare frauds, thieves, drunks, poorly skilled craftsmen, liars, prostitutes, etc. The fabric of macro-society is made up of many groups that do little to make the world a better place, and many groups that tend to make it a better place.
In the end - a few hundred thousand witnesses, or mormons, or amish - all of whom integrate into society less than some others - will not change the overall society to a great degree will it? They will always be here to one extent or another, and always have been.
Mostly they are harmless - but at times they cause significant harm that will damage society. I just think the statement is too broad in some ways.
Many here cannot see the picture clearly in this issue [as I cannot at times] due to great personal damage done at the micro level. Hard to see for some the forests effects, when being nose to nose with the tree in front of you.
Jeff
I can agree with that.
on a macro level, the JW 'religion' is hardly even noticable.
Using the "macro level" argument I can argue that the David Korash cult was much less harmful than the WTS.
This is true.
The marco level depends on how many people are influenced by a religion.
But consider the whole world to be a world full of only JW's. (God help us, and sorry for causing some to throw up)
The world would probably be saver, but say goodbye to the future, say goodbye to progress. Say goodbye to fun
Danny
I know that I'm committing a bit of a logical fallacy when I say this, but Jerry Bergman has little credibility in my book due to his incessant defense of creationism and intelligent design. I believe he also has posted here a while ago and I remember not being very impressed.
B.
