A Comparison Of Translations

by Honesty 30 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Okay, I found the info I posted earlier. The text I examined is Luke 11:42:

    "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint (héduosmon), rue (péganon), and all [other] kinds (pan lakhanon) of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God" (Luke 11:42).

    One could also consider Matthew 13:32, 26:35; Luke 3:19, 11:42, 13:2, 4; Acts 5:29; 1 Corinthians 6:18, 15:27, in which the word pas "all" completes a specified set. In the text quoted above from Luke, mint and rue are included in a set of "garden herbs", pan occurs to complete the set. "Other" is added in the translation because mint and rue were already mentioned and are part of the set (included within the "all kinds"). But in Colossians 1:15, if we would treat "firstborn of all creation" as a partitive (as the NWT does, in order to justify adding "[other]"), pasés "all" would include Jesus within the set of "all creation" in v. 15 and then suddenly, inexplicably, panta "all" excludes him from the set in v. 16-18. Panta in v. 16-18 does not complete a set that already includes Jesus; rather, the JW interpretation would require it to denote a new set that excludes him. This is the problem the NWT creates by adding "[other]". No such problem exists by taking pasés ktiseós "of all creation" as a genitive of subordination -- as pas would refer to the same set in both v. 15 and v. 16-18. In short, the problem is this: pas "all" would include Jesus in v. 15 but exclude him in v. 16-18. Of course, Jesus cannot logically be a member of the set in v. 16-18 because he does not create himself.

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    That pair of posts to begin this thread were outstanding! Very good research, Leolaia and Hellrider.

    Rex

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    John 8.24 (Literal)

    24. |2036| I said |3767| Therefore, |5213| to you |3754| that |0599| you will die |1722| in |3588| the |0266| sins |5216| of you! |1437| if |1063| For |3361| not |4100| you believe |3754| that |1473| (((I |1510| AM))), |0599| you will die |1722| in |3588| the |0266| sins |5216| of you!

    (I) Strong's Ref. # 1473
    Romanized ego
    Pronounced eg-o'

    a primary pronoun of the first person I (only expressed when emphatic): KJV--I, me.

    (AM)
    Strong's Ref. # 1510
    Romanized eimi
    Pronounced i-mee'

    the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic): KJV--am, have been, X it is I, was.

    What are the implications by the WBTS changing scripture and teaching what they know to be false doctrine? Assuming Christianity is the true faith, then they are responsible for sending people to Hell! Jesus is telling the Jews that He is God and "if you don't believe it you are dead in your sins", that means Hell or separation from God! Observe that the usage in John 8.24 is #1510
    "Ego eimi" is the same "I Am" that we see in Exodus 3.14, Hayah

    (I Am)
    Strong's Ref. # 1961
    Romanized hayah
    Pronounced haw-yaw

    a primitive root [compare HSN1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): KJV--beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use.


    Let's compare two uses of (am) this word in one verse:

    Joh 9.5: |3752| When |1722| in |3588| the |2889| world |5600| I am, |5457| {the} Light
    (((|1510|(I am )))) |3588| of the |2889| world.

    (I am)
    Strong's Ref. # 5600
    Romanized o
    Pronounced o

    including the oblique forms, as well as es {ace}; e {ay}; etc.; the subjunctive of GSN1510; (may, might, can, could, would, should, must, etc.; also with GSN1487 and its comparative, as well as with other particles) be: KJV--+ appear, are, (may, might, should) be, X have, is, + pass the flower of her age,
    should stand, were.

    The above is simply a common usage, like one of us saying 'I am". Now look at the usage of #1510:

    (AM)
    Strong's Ref. # 1510
    Romanized eimi
    Pronounced i-mee'

    the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic): KJV--am, have been, X it is I, was.

    The second usage from John 9.5 is #1520, here again Jesus is claiming to be God. Jehovah's Witnesses are in the same boat as the Jews were. They do not believe that Jesus is GOD, therefore they are not Christians, which means by Christian doctrine they are going to Hell. This shows the gravity of the situation in cults that teach a false christ. That's why the church has often dealt severly with heretics that teach against the true nature of God!
    Rex

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    John 8.24 (Literal)

    24. |2036| I said |3767| Therefore, |5213| to you |3754| that |0599| you will die |1722| in |3588| the |0266| sins |5216| of you! |1437| if |1063| For |3361| not |4100| you believe |3754| that |1473| (((I |1510| AM))), |0599| you will die |1722| in |3588| the |0266| sins |5216| of you!

    (I) Strong's Ref. # 1473
    Romanized ego
    Pronounced eg-o'

    a primary pronoun of the first person I (only expressed when emphatic): KJV--I, me.

    (AM)
    Strong's Ref. # 1510
    Romanized eimi
    Pronounced i-mee'

    the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic): KJV--am, have been, X it is I, was.

    What are the implications by the WBTS changing scripture and teaching what they know to be false doctrine? Assuming Christianity is the true faith, then they are responsible for sending people to Hell! Jesus is telling the Jews that He is God and "if you don't believe it you are dead in your sins", that means Hell or separation from God! Observe that the usage in John 8.24 is #1510
    "Ego eimi" is the same "I Am" that we see in Exodus 3.14, Hayah

    (I Am)
    Strong's Ref. # 1961
    Romanized hayah
    Pronounced haw-yaw

    a primitive root [compare HSN1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): KJV--beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use.


    Let's compare two uses of (am) this word in one verse:

    Joh 9.5: |3752| When |1722| in |3588| the |2889| world |5600| I am, |5457| {the} Light
    (((|1510|(I am )))) |3588| of the |2889| world.

    (I am)
    Strong's Ref. # 5600
    Romanized o
    Pronounced o

    including the oblique forms, as well as es {ace}; e {ay}; etc.; the subjunctive of GSN1510; (may, might, can, could, would, should, must, etc.; also with GSN1487 and its comparative, as well as with other particles) be: KJV--+ appear, are, (may, might, should) be, X have, is, + pass the flower of her age,
    should stand, were.

    The above is simply a common usage, like one of us saying 'I am". Now look at the usage of #1510:

    (AM)
    Strong's Ref. # 1510
    Romanized eimi
    Pronounced i-mee'

    the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic): KJV--am, have been, X it is I, was.

    The second usage from John 9.5 is #1510, here again Jesus is claiming to be God. Jehovah's Witnesses are in the same boat as the Jews were. They do not believe that Jesus is GOD, therefore they are not Christians, which means by Christian doctrine they are going to Hell. This shows the gravity of the situation in cults that teach a false christ. That's why the church has often dealt severly with heretics that teach against the true nature of God!
    Rex

  • robhic
    robhic

    OK, I idn't write this, just copied it from somewhere else and just to make an already lengthy discussion even lengthier:

    Genesis 1:2

    "Spirit of God" changed to "God's active force."

    The revision modifies the original noun with a more impersonal form as the JWs reject the orthodox Christian belief in the personality of the Holy Spirit.


    Exodus 3:14

    "I am" changed to "I shall prove to be."

    The revision clouds the connection between God's self proclaimed title and Jesus' proclamation of being the same in John 8:58, as the JW rejects the deity of Jesus.

    Numbers 1:52

    "Under his own standard" changed to "by his [three-tribe] division."

    The Hebrew word degal translated as "standard" literally means flag or banner. Since the JWs regard saluting a flag as an act of idolatry, the text has been altered according to their doctrinal bias. (Same revision found in Num. 2:2, 3, 10, 18, 25; 10: 14, 18, 22, 25.)

    Isaiah 43:10

    "Nor will there be one after me" changed to "after me there continued to be none."

    The original future tense of the verb indicates that there will never be another being sharing in God's divinity. The altered tense suggests credibility to the JW doctrine of Jesus' becoming a "mighty god" while still being less than Jehovah in nature. (See the John 1: I discussion below for another expression of this JW distortion.)

    Ecclesiastes 12:7

    "The spirit returns" changed to "the spirit itself returns."

    The passage indicates the return of a human spirit to God after death. Since the JWs believe in an unconscious state after death, "itself' has been inserted to suggest a more impersonal reference to spirit.

    Matthew 2:11

    "Bowed down and worshipped him" changed to "did obeisance to it"

    The JWs evade recognizing Jesus as worthy of worship as a divine being by altering the form of honor that he receives from men and angels. The Greek word proskuneo literally means "worship." The use of "obeisance" is a NWT adaptation. (Same revision found in Matt. 8:2; 9:18, 14:33; 15:25; 28:9, 17; Mark 5:6; 15:19; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; Heb. 1:6.)

    Matthew 5:19

    "Least in the kingdom of heaven" changed to "least in relation to the kingdom of the heaven."

    The passage indicates that a disobedient believer who sins can still find forgiveness and eternal life. The JWs believe heaven is reserved for only 144,000 specially designated servants of God. The revision suggests more separation between these groups through a status hierarchy.

    Matthew 25:46

    "Eternal punishment" changed to "everlasting cutting-off."

    The Greek word kolasis translated "punishment" indicates continuous torment, but the NWT revision suggests "termination," as the JWs promote the doctrine of annihilationism regarding condemned souls.

    Mark 1:4

    "Baptism of repentance" changed to "baptism [in symbol] of repentance. "

    Nothing in the original Greek text justifies the insertion of "in symbol." The revision undermines the significance of John the Baptist's ministry, the Jewish meaning of baptism and the Christian sacrament of baptism in contrast to the more regimented JW baptism requirements.

    Luke 12:8

    "Acknowledges me" changed to "confesses union with me."

    The addition of "union" suggest something more than what the original Greek actually states and adds further credibility to the NWT distortion presented in John 6:56 below.

    Luke 23:43

    'Today you will be with me" changed to "I tell you today, You will be with me."

    Jesus assured the thief on the cross that their spirits would soon enter the spiritual/heavenly realm together. As the JWs reject the belief in the conscious survival of the human spirit after death, their revision suggests that "today" deals with the time of the statement rather than the relocation of their spirits. John 1:1
    "Word was God" changed to "Word was a god."

    The JWs reject the orthodox Christian belief in the deity of Jesus. The revision asserts that Jesus was someone other than God Himself.

    John 1:12

    "Believe" changed to "exercise faith."

    The orthodox Christian doctrine of spiritual justification and rebirth before God by belief in Jesus is in conflict with the JW doctrine of salvation by works (i.e., obedience to their organization). The revision attempts to describe salvation as a continuous process rather than a radical encounter and transition (Same revision found in John 3:16, 18; 6:29; Rom. 4:3, 10:4, 9, 10.)

    John 6:56

    "Remains in me" changed to "remains in union with me."

    The mystical union between the individual human spirit and the Spirit of Jesus is obscured by restructuring "in" with a compound form. The substitution implies more separation between a Christian and Jesus. (Same revision found in John 14:20; Rom. 8:1, 2, 10; 12:5; 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 3:28; Eph. 1:13*; 2:10, 13, 15, 21, 22; 3:6; Col. 1:14*, 16*, 27; 2:6, 10*, 11, 12*; 3:3; 1 Thes. 4:16; 5:18; 1 John 3:24; 4:4; 5:20. Verses with an asterisk (*) indicate where the revision uses "by means of" or "in relationship to" rather than "in union with.")

    John 8:58

    "I am" changed to "I have been."

    Same intent as described in Exodus 3:14 above.

    John 14:17

    "Beholds him or knows him" changed to "beholds it or knows it."

    The revision ignores the context of the pronoun with the Comforter role in the preceding verse to deny the personality of the Holy Spirit.

    John 17:5

    "Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you" changed to "glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you."
    The original text reflects the shared deity of God the Father and Jesus before the creation of the world, but the revision suggests different natures as implied by different states of glory.

    John 17:21

    "Are in me" changed to "are in union with me."

    The original statement by Jesus indicates his shared deity with the Father. The revision undermines this by suggesting a greater separation between them.

    Acts 2:17

    "Pour out my Spirit" changed to "pour out some of my spirit."

    The revision evades recognition of the Holy Spirit and His activity at Pentecost by suggesting an impersonal force activated to a more limited degree by God.

    Acts 2:42

    "Breaking of bread" changed to "taking of meals."

    The passage demonstrates the frequency of the communion sacrament among the earliest Christians. The revision is an attempt to disguise this practice as the JWs teach that communion is reserved for only the 144,000 special saints. (Same revision found in Acts 20:7.)

    Acts 4:12

    "Be saved" changed to "get saved." The revision avoids recognizing that an individual commitment to Jesus provides immediate and complete salvation, as the JWs believe in an alternative salvation as prescribed by their organization. (Same revision found in Acts 16:30-31.)

    Acts 10:36

    "Lord of all" changed to "Lord of all [others]."

    The revision suggests that even though Jesus is highly honored, he is still one among many of God's created beings. (Similar revisions found in Rom. 8:32; Phil. 2:9; Col. 1: 16-17.)

    Romans 2:29
    "By the Spirit" changed to "by spirit."
    Although the definite article 'the" does not literally appear in the Greek, it is implied by the form that (pneuma) appears in. The revision, however, translates pneuma in a more abstract form to evade the reality of the Holy Spirit. (Same revision found in Rom. 15:19; Eph. 2:22; 3:5; Titus 3:5; James 2:26; 2 Peter 1:21.)

    Romans 8:23a

    "Have the firstfruits of the Spirit" changed to "have the firstfruits, namely the spirit."

    This represents another form of disguising the separate personality of the Holy Spirit as in Rom. 2:29 above. The original text refers to the derivatives of the Spirit, but the revision identifies the spirit as a derivative.

    Romans 8:23b

    "The redemption of our bodies" changed to "the release from our bodies by ransom."

    This revision avoids the suggestion that there is continuity of either body or soul after death. Their teaching that the soul ceases to exist at the death of the body precludes the ownership of, or relationship to, a body that must be redeemed.

    Romans 8:28

    "All things" changed to "all his works." The revision undermines the sovereignty of God by suggesting that He controls only the things He is directly involved in doing.

    Romans 8:29

    "Those God foreknew" changed to "those whom he gave his first recognition."

    The revision obscures the nature of God's knowledge and power as a first recognition may or may not be foreknowledge.

    Romans 9:5

    "Christ, who is God over all, forever praised!" changed to "Christ, [sprang] according to the flesh: God who is over all, [be] blessed forever."

    The direction proclamation that Christ is God is obscured by the altered text.

    Romans 10:13

    "Lord" changed to "Jehovah."
    This revision obscures the fact that the Lord referred to in verse 13 is the same Lord called Jesus in verse 9. Since the JWs reject the deity of Jesus, the revision is made accordingly.
    The Greek word, kurios, translated "Lord" has been revised to "Jehovah" over 200 times in the NWT. The JWs insist that this is the only valid title for God, even though Greek-speaking Jews used "Lord" and "God" in place of "Yahweh" (the source of "Jehovah") throughout their Septuagint translation of the Old Testament. Furthermore, the Bible contains dozens of names for God other than Lord, Yahweh, or Jehovah.

    Romans 13:1

    "Authorities that exist have been established by God" changed to "authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God."

    Since the JW regard saluting a flag, military service and similar forms of submission to government as idolatry, they have added words to the text to weaken the proclaimed authority of government.

    1 Corinthians 6:19

    "Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit" changed to "the body of YOU people is [the] temple of the holy spirit."

    To avoid recognition of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the individual believer, the revision modifies "body" to a more collective form in harmony with the opposing JW doctrine.

    1 Corinthians 10:4

    "The Rock was Christ" changed to "that rock-mass meant the Christ."

    The passage depicts the preincarnate Jesus exhibiting his divine nature by being present many centuries earlier. This revision tries to conceal his eternal nature with a more figurative interpretation of "the Rock."

    1 Corinthians 12:11

    "As he determines" changed to "as it wills."

    The NWT finds many ways to disguise the personality of the Holy Spirit. In this case the third person pronoun exercising individual conscience and will is replaced with an impersonal pronoun.


    1 Corinthians 14:14-16
    "Spirit" changed to "[gift of the] spirit."

    Like several other Biblical passages, this one indicates the distinctive presence of the human spirit as distinguished from the mind and body. The JWs evade these distinctions and try to disguise them with related revisions.

    1 Corinthians 15:2
    "By this gospel you are saved" changed to "through which YOU are also being saved."

    Similar to the Acts 16:30 revision above, this one again obscures the completeness of salvation by grace. The JW's salvation exists as an extended process ("being saved") with the outcome being uncertain until final judgment before Jehovah.

    Galatians 6:18

    "Your spirit" changed to "the spirit YOU [show]."

    Similar to the I Cor. 14 revision above, this one attempts to obscure the reality of the individual human spirit by presenting it more as an attitude of action than an entity.

    Philippians 1:23

    "To depart and be with Christ" changed to "the releasing and the being with Christ."

    Paul's eagerness indicates that the believer's spirit goes immediately into Christ's presence at death. The revision suggests that death and being with Christ are two separate steps in an extended process, as the JWs believe in soul sleep (i.e., the unconscious state of the human spirit awaiting the resurrection).

    Colossians 1:19

    "His fullness" changed to "fullness."

    The definite Greek article (to), translated "his," indicates that Jesus shares the Father's divine nature as also shown in Col. 2:9. The revisions evade the truth by concealing the similarity of the two passages.

    Colossians 2:9

    "The fullness of deity" changed to "the fullness of the divine quality."

    The Greek theotes, translated "deity," literally means divine essence or divinity. As the JWs reject the divine nature of Jesus, a revision is inserted to suggest that Jesus is limited to only divine-like characteristics.
    I Timothy 4:1

    "The Spirit" changed to "the inspired utterance."
    This revision attempts to obscure the reality and activity of the Holy Spirit by representing it as a message instead of an entity. (Similar revisions found in 1 John 4:1, 3, 6 with "expression" being utilized in place of "utterance.")

    Titus 2:13
    "Our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" changed to "the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus."

    Similar to the Rom. 9:5 revision shown above, a distinct proclamation of Jesus as God is obscured by the altered text. (Similar rewording also found in 2 Peter 1:1.)


    Hebrews 1:8

    "Your throne, 0 God" changed to "God is your throne."

    The revision avoids addressing the Son, Jesus, as God to validate the JWs' rejection of his divine nature.

    Hebrews 9:14

    "The eternal Spirit" changed to "an everlasting spirit."

    Similar to the Rom. 2:29 revision above, the switching of the article before the adjective represents the work of the Holy Spirit in a more indirect/ impersonal manner.

    Hebrews 12:9

    "Father of our spirits" changed to "Father of our spiritual life."

    Similar to the I Cor. 14 revision shown above, this one tries to obscure the distinctive reality of human spirits by replacing them with a more abstract noun.

    Hebrews 12:23

    "The spirits of righteous men" changed to "the spiritual lives of righteous ones."

    This revision represents the same noun-switching as described in Heb. 12:9 above.
    Hebrews 12:28

    "We are receiving a kingdom" changed to "we are to receive a kingdom."

    An orthodox Christian understanding of the Kingdom recognizes it as primarily established through Jesus' victorious death, then further through post-resurrection displays of his power, and perpetually through the addition of new believers into God's family. The JWs teach that Jesus' Kingdom did not begin until his invisible return in 1914. The form of the Greek word for "receiving" (paralambano) implies a current condition, but the revision suggests a future event according to the JW doctrine.
    1 Peter 1:11

    "Spirit of Christ in them was pointing" changed to "the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ."

    Another example of the supernatural presence of Jesus in the life of a Christian is obscured again by this revision as the JW doctrinal view presents him as more limited.

    I Peter 3:18-19

    "By the Spirit, through whom" changed to "in the spirit. In this [state]."

    Similar to several examples presented above, in this passage the presence and personality of the Holy Spirit is obscured with a more abstract representation of the Holy Spirit to accommodate the JW doctrine.

    Jude 19

    "Have the Spirit" changed to "having spirituality."

    Similar to Gal. 6:18 above, this revision attempts to obscure the separate presence of the Holy Spirit.

    Revelation 3:14

    "Ruler of God's creation" changed to "beginning of the creation by God."

    The altered prepositions distract from the sovereignty of Jesus indicated in the passage and suggests that the real power of creation was accomplished through the Father, as the JWs believe that Jesus is a created being.

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    Well Leo, far be it from me to disagree with you. I just happen to think the NWT isn;t as bad as many make it out to be, and at least they do try do defend their scholasticism. But to me, it really again boils down to arguing angels fitting on the head of a pin. Call me a cop-out if you want, I've been researching JW/NWT stuph for 8 years and not only has it become tiresome but it's too hard for me to type a compete exegesis and opinion.

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    What's up, Cygnus? Are you in poor health or something? Please let me know so I can get people praying for you. Rex

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Generic comment: imo overcriticism kills fair criticism, by drowning the few meaningful examples (such as the outrageous substitution of "Jehovah" to "Lord" in the NT, especially where the context highlights Jesus as Lord, e.g. Romans 10 or 14) among a host of dubious ones (where the translation is actually acceptable on linguistic grounds, even though some doctrinal bias might be suspected).

    Iow: the NWT is not that bad. Which doesn't make it good.

  • Fangorn
    Fangorn

    I'm afraid you're wasteing your breath Cygnus, they wanna believe. I too have made a fairly serious study of the various translations and the NWT is for the most part not too bad, certainly no worse than the others. I do hold many of their insertions of the name in the Greek scriptures against them, that is in my opinion the most egregious thing they've done. Folks on this thread are dragging out the old trinitarian canards that have been around for years, and of course the trinitarians never inserted their bias in translation. Almost all translations are flawed.

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    Hi Fang,
    We are not 'proof texting' nor are we quoting scripture out of context. I once believed much as you do. I was driven to disprove the trinity doctrine. What I found out was this: Christianity does not defend a doctrine until it is challenged by heretics. When you see Jesus being worshipped or called Yahweh, by others or by Himself, it is legitimate.
    Jesus was gradually seen as God by His disciples as they themselves gained spiritual sight. He was always worshipped after the resurrection and that was when the deity of the Holy Spirit became readily apparent. The early Christians had no reason to defend what they could readily see: God had revealed Himself in three divine persons. Tri-unity is what we see in scripture, in context.
    The gospel of John was written to defend against heresies that had already sprung up, the gnostics taught that all flesh was evil, therefore Jesus only appeared to be human. The Docetians taught that Jesus was just a man who had been inhabited by God. One of the outstanding things about having so much access to manuscript evidence is that we can see that the true doctrine survived all of the attempts to change it.
    The heretical teachings of the Watchtower are a stark ocntrast compared to real scholarship.
    The only ones who question the teachings of orthodoxy are naturalists (see Jesus Seminar), cultists and other religious systems. Hey, don't take my word for it. Dig into the research and look at things without Watchtower axioms and bias.
    Rex

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