I know most christians say that he was. However, I find it very intriguing that Paul says in: Romans 3:23 - "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" and again in Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." So was Jesus an imperfect individual on earth and only through his offering up his body/blood by being faithful to the end was his offering deemed pure? Very interesting. Looking for what the Bible says on the subject. Thanks.
Was Jesus PERFECT in his human form?
by sinis 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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sinis
Found this article on the Memorial and if Jesus was perfect, etc.
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tetrapod.sapien
hey sinis, welcome to the board.
from my perspective, jesus was no more perfect than the writers who made him up.
i also have another perspective, should he have actually existed: he was no more perfect than anyone else, or the embryonic mutations that resulted in any uniqueness that he possesed.
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Terry
There are questions we sometimes ask without realizing we don't know what we are really asking.
The word __PERFECT__is a word that has no meaning which is absolute.
PERFECT has to have a context, first of all.
Which is perfect for eating soup; a fork or a spoon?
A spoon is perfect. But, a SPOON is not absolutely perfect in and of itself. It is contingent on how we use it.
Our index finger is perfect for locating boogers and our thumb is not; however, our little finger sometimes is better.
You see?
The idea that there was an Adam or a Jesus and then calling them "PERFECT" is useful to certain cults for their purposes. Mostly it is a concept used to sell the ridiculous doctrine of the Atonement which necessitates Original Sin.
Punishing children for some evil deed done by their parents is a very tribal idea. God punishing the children of Adam and Eve for the parental misdeeds is silly and quite primitive in its scope of justice.
It is the idiot, Paul, the self-appointed Apostle and inventor of Christianity who has the most fun with this sadistic conceptual nonsense.
The first Adam and the Last Adam (Adam in Eden and Jesus in Jerusalem) cancel each other out in his equation. Adam had millions of children/grandchildren and Jesus adopted them.
Jesus took the rap for not only Adam but all his kids!
Bizarre justice. Inept, arbitrary and illogical.
Adam does the crime and his kids do the time.
Jesus is charged with the Adamic crime and God thinks it pretty neat to allow him to die for the crime in his innocence.
Not even the worst kangaroo court would call this law perfect.
What Jesus is....is the PERFECT scapegoat in this scenario.
Remember, the law of the talon (eye for eye and tooth for tooth) only applied to the Jews who accepted the law under Moses. The rest of the world, Gentiles, were only under the Law of the sons of Noah (according to scripture, anyway).
The Gentiles who kept the Noahide laws had no need of a redeemer.
Jesus wasn't perfect for them, now, was he?
T.
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sinis
OK. I'm trying to look at it from the bibles perspective vs what the WTBS promote. Afterall there is biblical truth and then there is the WTBS truth - not the same. As Terry mentioned its all from perspective. I wonder since Jesus was gods son (still working on this one as I think it really goes much deeper) would he have been perfect, incapable of sinning at all or perhaps he was just a human that had gods spirit - something that adam and eve lost thus eventual death. Really does anyone have a clear synopsis of the ransom and what it really meant? I have a suspicion that it is not what the Society teaches - looking for what the bible says. Thanks again.
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tetrapod.sapien
the WTS society teaches that he was perfect in the flesh. as in: before god crippled adam's genome, he made a copy of it. then, when he got mary pregnant, he inserted the genome, and hence christ was humanly perfect with only a slight embryonic mutation. they never word it like that, but that's the gist, from what i can remember. and so the ransom is an exact atonement for adam's "sin". of course, as terry brings out, it's not really exact at all.
what the WTS categorically avoids, is that because of the ransom, true salvation comes through jesus. it started with original sin, but jesus made it better. they also deny that jesus is god, according to the NT.
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JamesThomas
Welcome to the forum, sinis.
You may have brushed off Terry's post a bit too quickly (insightful post - by the way - Terry). He was attempting to show how the entire Biblical story and explanation of God, Jesus, and redemption, goes against true compassion and common sense.
You have an opportunity to see beyond the confines of your Bible if - you would stop and listen.
j
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doofdaddy
He was a carpenter.
I guess nobodies perfect!!!
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JosephMalik
Perfect does not mean immortal or even sinless. It is a word that can be applied to Noah or Abraham as well as others (Gen 6:9, 17:1). Adam and Eve’s continued existence depended upon the tree of life not their perfection or sinlessness. Jesus was mortal, born of woman, grew older as time passed and would have died naturally unless someone or something intervened in His behalf. In His case that something was His transfiguration.
Joseph
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hibiscusfire
Jesus was perfect and sinless in all ways.
He never commited any crime. He has God's blood running through his veins. He was born through the seed of a woman- Mary.
Let history unfold.
