i got df-ed
i was genuinely sorry...stopped the wrongdoing...apologized to everyone i hurt...starting to work on fixing things...didnt know nothing about un blood child abuse etc etc etc..didnt want to be df-ed....
didnt stop 'em
Disfellowshipping somewhat voluntary?
by Fatfreek 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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purplesofa
I have not read this whole thread before posting.
But I have been before a judicial committee twice for the same offense. First time I was disfellowshipped, second on private reproof.
The first time I was going through a very hard time in my life and fornication came from a result of just too much drinking and long term stress and grief. I was in a complete state of confusion. I was newly baptised. At the time, I really thought the elders knew my heart and all would go well. I needed help!!!!!!!!! I was disfellowshipped
The second time, I was just horney and wanted sex, woohoo.......I was heavily coached on how to handle the committee. And, yes, I was very sorry. But just like in the world, people learn how to give proper testimony and how to handle themselves. Elders cannot read inside your very soul. This second time I was put on private reproof. Since the second offense was about 10+ years after the first one, the elders told me that they were trained differently regarding Disfellowshipping newly baptised people. And, that now I probably would not have been DF back then.
Anyway, the coaching is what got me through the second one, How to show repentance that was inside me, learning how to show it outwardly.
Have I learned my lesson??????? Not really.
purps
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DannyHaszard
KANGAROO COURTS
a.k.a. GESTAPO TACTICS:
A few minutes, from my final judicial hearing..
A glossary of the watchtower's canon of ethics..Also known as; 'approved operating procedure' [ A.O.P.]
It's all about control the; Control Freaks with a Mean Streak!
Jehovahspeak=doublespeak. Carefully crafted cult rhetoric..JWessse..The articulator manipulators..
It's plain old: mealy mouthing, innuendo / deception / flim-flam / hoodwink / bamboozle / fraud / mind games / confidence game / blowing smoke and bluster / pushing your buttons....
Dumb and dumber,the "dumb-down take down".
Your foe feigns ignorance..This is a Theocratic warfare tactic, where after prayer to god..The elder sitting in judgement of you,LIES and asserts he doesn't have a clue about what you are talking about...Also known as, "selective alzheimers".
The notorious,"TWO WITNESS TAKEDOWN" this absurdity,is an over extension of; 2 Corn. 13:1....It is a subterfuge, ruse so the cult charlatans can selectively ignore evidence at their whim...
The ambush, surprise and swarm technique , a.k.a.'ambush journalism'.{perfected by Mike Wallace of 60 minutes}..This ploy is used by wolf pack predators to quarry their prey by confusion and isolation..This strong arm tactic is like the lions loud roar to 'unhinge' and intimidate their prey.
The above is also known as the ,"gang bang". or 3rd degree interrogation tactic.
The use of a ,'straw man' as the,'fall guy' to divert attention from the real issue at hand, and to try to erode an otherwise valid argument.This is a variation of the age old ,drawing of a red herring, diversionary tactic..
Arguing in the alternative the: Deception Deflection Directive
Stonewalling,,sandbagging,,foot dragging,,pigeonholing,,suppression of crucial evidence,under the guise of the ubiquitous ,'confidentiality clause'.
Threatbaiting ,which is to instill a presumptuous pretext of guilt,that you are a malefactor.Example:..."if you ever hit my mother, I will surely press charges against you.."
Malicious 3rd degree style interrogation tactics with abuse recriminations.
The following is an elder specialty:
This goodie must flow right down from the ivory tower legal whores. [ever wonder what elders learn when they go off to their exclusive elder seminars??} It's the, deflection "JEOPARDY GAME"!.
Framing false accusations in the form of a QUESTION..Example,"Brother Haszard we were "asked" if you were a faggot? When we were "asked" if you were a faggot.We said no!.
This sleazy tactic is a sicko subterfuge to isolate them from court depositions.{so you can't actually pin them down on their say-so's.This is just a variation of the age old ,'loaded question' or rhetorical question..
Oh, and let's not omit the passive/aggressive good cop bad cop routine.
The legalese, AD HOMINEM attack {mud slinging}
Godlessness in the last days @ 2 timothy 3:1-9,described by St. Paul...
"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days, people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive,.....ungrateful, unholy, without love, unyielding, unforgiving, slanderous, without self control, brutal, not lovers of good, treacherous, rash, conceited,....'having a form of godliness but denying it's power'....Men who worm their way into your homes....swayed by all kinds of evil desires....men of depraved minds who reject the truth...
Golly,my gosh!..It sounds like, 'show time' at one of my elders meetings!
The flunky elders from the Rockland Massachusetts Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses Summer street Rockland Massachusetts USA. 02370
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willyloman
To get back to fatfreek's original question:
In my old congo, we had a very influential elder who used to say, "You have to put a gun to the elders' heads to get DF'd." In other words, it was his theory that he and the elders he served with went into JC's with a strong desire to find repentance and NOT disfellowship. And he was right, about that particular congo at that particular time. But this is not universal among JWs. This same brother also liked to say, "Err on the side of mercy." However, at an elder's school the DO read us instructions from the WTS suggesting that attitude was in itself erroneous and would result in evil-doers remaining at large in the congo. The vast majority of elder bodies I am familiar with generally subscribes to the "guilty until proven innocent" school of judicial decisions.
It's clear that many, many people feel the judicial system at the KH is unjust, a genuine kangaroo court. There's clearly a lot of confusion about the process and the results it yields. You have to be suspicious of any process that is purposely created to be secretive and "clubby." I once suggested to another elder in private that the WTS would do us all a favor if they'd change the procedure. I thought they should appoint an advocate from among the elders at the same time as a JC was appointed. The advocate would represent the publisher and walk them through the process and help them prepare for their appearance before the committee.
His reaction? He said I was nuts, that this would completely disrupt the process, subvert justice and create divisions among elders as some of them developed reputations as "defense attorneys." Then, he said, it would be just like the world's justice system (for which he and most dubs have little respect, except when judges rule in their favor). I said it would add some excitement and lead to other needed reforms in the judicial process.
But that was then. This is now. I realize reform is a lost cause within the WTS.
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talesin
So, really, willyloman, whether the supplicant is repentant or not, is irrelevant.
If the JC wishes to conduct a witch hunt, they can always fall back on attitude.
How can innocence / remorse be 'proven' ? It can't, but 'J*h knows what is in your heart', so must the JC as well.
However, at an elder's school the DO read us instructions from the WTS suggesting that attitude was in itself erroneous and would result in evil-doers remaining at large in the congo.
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EvilForce
Sorry I do not think it us a person's choice. I have seen a witchhunt / JC in action. Maybe not all congos are like that but I saw plenty of witchhunting going on, whereby no matter what the accused said they were going to be DF'd. The judge/jury/executioner JC made sure of that.
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DannyHaszard
In just one year 1987 i calculated by the WT's own stats that 4.4 men woman and children were DF per hour as the world turned on it's axis.
Get this,the Watchtower asserts that every single one was @ "the direction of the holy spirit"
This is utter blaspheme by the watchtower/elder leadership.
How many blasphemes do you need to be eternally damned?One,or how about 37,000 for that year of 1987?These are wrecked and ruined lives people.
Matthew 18:10 Jesus dire warning to his high ranking apostles;"see to it that you do not dispise one of these little ones,for i tell you their angels in heaven always behold the face of my father who is in heaven."
The written and oral directives of the JC flunky elders is one priority,that is to intimidate and save face with the followers and to stonewall a potential civil lawsuit.
Look either it's the Holy Spirit or it ain't da Holy spirit.They told me even when they are wrong in Judgment i must consider it a test of my faith and bite the bullet.What kind of mealy mouthing gobbledygook is that?No it's blaspheme.
God's will,and the body of evidence has got litttle to do with anything.If they had any clue when they booted me in 1992 how much damage i was going to cost them they never would have done it.
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willyloman
talesin: the "attitude" that was erroneous was the elder's thinking that one should "err on the side of mercy." That's what I was trying to convey. Sorry I didn't make it clear.
Further, I think repentance does "make a difference" in the view of many elders; the problem comes in trying to determine what genuine repentance looks like. Some people cry easily, others don't express emotion. Elders are untrained and ill equipped to perform the kind of psychological analysis and counseling that would be required to help people sort through these kinds of problems. But they are told they have all the training they need from the WTS and that they are "qualified" by nothing less than Holy Spirit. It's a case where the road to Hell is paved with their good intentions.
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talesin
willyloman
ah, soo,,, i see what you are saying. Thanks. The DO was counselling the elders that their merciful attitude was wrong ... how sad and disappointing for you, struggling to do the right thing. It is a heavy load for some, I've seen the emotional toll it can take.
Truly, to be told that you have to judge people's motives, and see into their hearts, is an impossible task. Those elders who really care about doing the right thing are in a difficult position.
tal
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tijkmo
1. Anything alluding to or naming one of the Society's attorneys
2. Any mention of the Legal Department
3. Any comments referring to direction from the Society
4. Any comments mentioning anyone other than the committee itself as a possible influence in the decision reached
5. Any comments that might suggest to someone with a critical eye that the committee did not reach its decision on its own but, instead, somehow yielded to the influence of an outside party
6. Any comments indicating that the elders mishandled the case or committed any error in the investigation or the judicial committee process.
these are instructions given to elders at a school to be placed in the elders manual at the time..instructions were with regard to filling in a form to be sent to the society...notice number 6..so by their own admission the holy spirit is not operative on j/c otherwise the hs would be responsible for the mistake...the general attitude seems to be we know mistakes will be made..just dont ever admit it ..ever...not ever..not even once
