Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?

by Sirona 93 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hamsterbait

  The drinking is a symptom of some other underlying problem, not the problem itself.

  So the AA cult does its bit to shout down the demons, but only if you GO TO ALL THE MEETINGS!!!!! All the time...

  It is exactly the same with how WTS deals with the symptoms of falling hours, meeting attendance, drop out youths, falling contributions. DO LOTS AND LOTS SO YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO SEE THE REAL PROBLEM.

  The mental problem is the disease, alcoholism is a syndrome indicating a mental disease mechanism.

  HB
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  (((( Hamster bait )))) Love your name, by the way!

  I don't disagree with you. I was around AA for a long time. I saw it all. I took what I needed, and left the rest. I haven't been to a meeting in 4 years, and I have not had to drink. yet. There are a lot of AAers that replace alcoholism with AAism, get to a point and never move any farther. There are a lot of AAers that move on with their lives, because they've taken what they've needed to, and applied it fully.

  While getting sober and learning to stay that way I had to do a lot of things I didnt want to do. A lot of things I didn't like. Many meetings I'd sit on my hands and chant to myself "I don't want to be here; I don't want to be here...." over and over for almost the entire meeting. I backed myself into many physical and emotional corners before I'd work the next step... or for that matter, just call my sponsor. I fought recovery.... almost every step of the way. And it worked inspite of my fighting, because I worked it inspite of myself.

  You don't have to like your medicine....just take it.
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  How many who just posted about choice and self control and the 'alcoholics responsibility' were sucking poisonous smoke from a cancer stick even as they typed?

  Oh so true of so many AA meetings. You can spot an AA or NA meeting by the smokers standing around outside waiting for the meeting to start!

  However, how many people are busted for driving while smoking (tobacco products)? I know smoking causes accidents, but it doesnt' depress the central nervous system and cause a person to pass out. They just turn green

  Me? I smoke. Used to smoke a couple packs a year. I'm down to 1 or 2 cigarettes a year, now.
• 

  upside/down

  I went with a friend to an AA meeting....

  I sh*t you not, if I HAD to go to those meetings I would become an alcoholic.... it was so depressing. It was a lesson in endurance.

  Maybe it works for some... but man nothing would drive me to alcohol or weed quicker than those meetings.

  u/d
• 

  hamsterbait

  Bren C,

  I hated AA because we just sat there night after night telling the same SOB story of anger or depression or whatever, occasionally s.o. said "I had a drink today." Bit like a JW saying "ACIGARETTE".

  There was nothing about moving on, finding a purpose.

  We can find any number of things to die for, including booze. I wanted something to live for. Once I realized I was the only me to live - that helped. Only I could sponsor a child in the third world or help buy an acre of rainforest to be preserved.

  In the WTS all I could have done was send magazines to the starving kids and say, "don't steal food, sit there read the magazine and die."

  Sounds distorted I know but I get so angry how little they really do!!

  HB
• 

  upside/down

  how little they really do!!

  Oh they do LOTS.... like take perfectly capable happy people and turn them into non-productive, egotistical, self-righteous, arrogant, busy-bodies, gossiping, hypochondriac, lazy, power crazy control freaks.

  That's a lot! Cheezuz...

  u/d
• 

  fairchild

  Alcoholism is not a disease, nor is it a choice. It is an addiction.

  I don't think for one second that anyone wakes up one morning and says to him/her self "Okay, I have thought about this long and hard, and I have decided to become an alcoholic so that my actions can affect everyone who loves me". It doesn't work that way and we all know it. This is where we can exclude the choice factor.

  A disease is something that cannot be cured just because a person makes the decision that it has to stop. An alcoholic CAN decide at any given point in time that it's been enough, and he/she can go seek professional help. It is in his/her hands to put a stop to it. When a person has cancer or when someone is a diabetic, the decision that it has been enough and has to stop is not up to the individual. This is where we can exclude a disease.

  Inherited? Let's put it this way. Alcoholism is so widespread, I can confidently bet you a lot of money that at least one person out of four (if not more) has an alcoholic in the family. My neighbor is an alcoholic, while nobody else in his family drinks. I know of two alcoholic parents with 7 siblings, and not one of the siblings drinks. Two little holes in the inheritance theory right there. There is not nearly enough evidence to sustain the theory that alcoholism is in the genes. It is what it is, a theory.

  When I was 6, the girl who used to sit next to me in class got hit and killed by a drunk driver. It happened 36 years ago, but I will never be able to get the image out of my mind of her mom, falling on her knees, hugging the coffin, screaming her name and breaking down completely. Her dad committed suicide a year later, unable to deal with the loss of his little girl who never had a chance to grow up. Her mom was admitted to a psychiatric ward, I doubt that she ever got out. Both my parents were alcoholics, which put me and my siblings in an orphanage, I was 10 at that time. Two of my high school friends were killed in drunk related accidents. They were in a car together, and the driver of the car was drunk. Three years later, my fiancee died in a drunk related accident just a few months before our wedding. I have seen several marriages (with children involved) breaking up as a direct result of alcohol. I have seen people destroy themselves, unable to leave the bottle alone. It is impossible for any thinking human being to deny that alcoholism is a destructive thing, not only to the alcoholic, but also to his or her surroundings, and especially to the people who love him or her. It is not a disease and it did not start out as a choice, but any alcoholic can make the choice to quit. I am going to be harsh right now but when it comes to alcoholism, I prefer to speak my mind, rather than to sugar coat things. Many alcoholics have got to know that their drinking affects other people. The fact that they keep drinking is selfish in a way. I don't have an ounce of respect for alcoholics who have not at least tried to quit. I am not going to say that everyone is the same, but it seems that many alcoholics are people who have a tendency to feel sorry for themselves. Self pity is a feeling that leads to absolutely nowhere. As human beings, we have a responsibility to deal with our hardships. Nobody is sheltered from hardships and we all experience them during our life's journey. To drown one's mind in alcohol in order to forget is not a way of taking responsibility for issues that need to be addressed. Neither is denying a problem or blaming it on someone or something else.

  If I had to say anything in the favor of an alcoholic, it would be that alcoholism is not something that jumps on your back all of a sudden. It is a gradual and often unnoticed process. One day a person might realize that he or she has a problem with alcohol. My question is.. when that day arrives, how many will actually take action and seek help, and how many will continue to drink, and even tell loved ones who try to help them to mind their own damn business? I would never, ever blame the ones who dare admit to themselves that they have a problem and act accordingly. The ones who keep lying to themselves, nestled inside a shell of denial, not seeking help, but seeking excuses instead, are the ones who do not deserve compassion.
• 

  HappyDad

  Thanks for all the replies to Sirona's question.

  There were a lot of good posts........positive and negative.........and I for one appreciate the input.

  The bottom line is.........................you had to be there to really understand it!

  If you do not, nor ever had a drinking problem.......or had a close family member with the problem...........you can spout out all the words you want........but you will never understand what it is about.

  You can go to school to be a counsellor...........you can read all the information presented about addictions or alcholism......but you don't know Jack Sh*t about what being addicted means........or how to treat it or overcome it.

  You will NEVER understand what being a slave to a substance means to living a normal, happy family life.

  Take all your book knowledge........all you THINK you learned from READING about it........and shove it up your posterior edifice.

  Without firsthand knowledge..........you will never be able to help anyone to the fullest extent.......recover from their living hell of addiction, alcholism, or whatever you may want to refer to it as.

  Yes..........I expect nasty replies. But I will say again..........there is help ........and this help is only availabe to the addictive person who will RECOGNIZE that they need help. Whether it be AA, NA or RATIONAL RECOVERY.

  All the do-gooders in the world with all their book reading, sociology degrees and half-assed knowledge...can't do a thing for anyone else unless they are recovered themselves.

  There are those on this forum who.......after leaving the JW religion.......have gone into the depths of drinking to excess and using substances to alter their thinking ability. Many are full of hate and resentment. This can be good if it is done in the proper way........but resentment and hate can destroy the one harboring these things. Those of us who are the VICTIMS become even more debilitated by hating and resenting. Make your hate and resentment mean something. Get active by making known the inacuracies and half truths of the WTBTS rather than constantly bitching about your lot in life.

  I myself ...........no longer support the WTBTS and I have loathing for many of the things we were brainwashed with.

  But please don't blame them for any situation that you are in......by making decissions to drink to excess or drug yourself just to alter your life. This was your OWN CHOICE if that is what you did.

  I have been there.........and I have left there. That is not the place I want to be.

  You have the power to control your own life. You have the power and the choice to be a drunk, a junkie, a dope head, or an asshole. The choice is yours. Do something positive for once. You are no longer a good standing Jehovah's Witness. You hate the religion.......so why dwell on it any longer. Make your stand for the "truth" in your own life. No one else can do any thing for you. It is up to you to be happy or not! No one else can make you happy unless you want to be happy all on your own.

  Yes..........your circumstances may be different from mine or others. You have family still in. You are shunned. You have suffered much more than me or others.

  But none of that has control over you if you don't want it to control you. It's time for YOU to take CONTROL over your own life and say........."I AM IN CONTROL.............AND I WILL DICTATE WHAT HAPPENS IN MY LIFE."

  My best wishes and prayers to anyone who needs recovery from substance abuse.

  So now...........you can flame me all you want. But isn't what I just said true?

  HappyDad
• 

  fairchild

  So now...........you can flame me all you want. But isn't what I just said true?

  Yes it is true. I fully support all your statements.

  I have been there.........and I have left there. That is not the place I want to be.

  I am so glad you came to realize that you were in the wrong place. I wish you well, happy dad.
• 

  LittleToe

  HappyDad:

  The bottom line is.........................you had to be there to really understand it!

  So true. A bit like having been a JW.