YHWH another pagan god

by homme perdu 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    I just want a cold hard answer. Did Jesus ever say anything close to YHWH or Jehovah, or a name for God at all?

    There is no evidence that he did. Nothing at all in the N.T.

    If there was a "historical Jesus" one can only imagine what he did or did not. To use the name Yhwh in a 1st-century Palestinian setting, he would have either to be the high priest and articulate it in the temple as part of the official service; or to use it in secret as part as a magical practice. Any other use would probably have been highly controversial, and there is no evidence of any controversy on this topic.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    PP....Here is Mark Smith's translation: "And Latipan El the Benefi[cient[ speaks: 'The name of my son [is] Yw, O Elat (shm.bny.yw.'ilt)'. And he pronounces the name Yamm [...] they answer ... for sustenance... 'You, O Lord ('adn), you proclaim [his name]' [...] 'I, Latipan El [...] Upon the hands ... I pronounce you name [...] beloved of El [...] my house of silver which [...] in the hand of Aliyan B[aal] ... thus he reviles me ... Drive him from [his royal] thr[one]...' " (KTU 1.1 IV 13-24). Regarding the critical line 14, Smith states: "t [i.e. of 'ilt]: All read l, but the left-hand edge of an adjoining vertical wedge, if it existed, would be obscured by the right-hand edge of the tablet. The single horizontal wedge read by all as t could be an m" (p. 135).

    Smith says that "the text is very fragmentary, but it may be deduced that yw and Yamm in lines 14 and 15 are the names of the same deity". He also cites Murtonen (1952:91) whose analysis of the poetic structure indicated that it was unlikely that "Yw and Ym are names of separate deities". Smith observes the act narrated in this scene is El's royal naming (*p'r) of Yamm. The scene is reminiscent of KTU 1.2 IV in which weapons are given names, but there is also a parallel to KTU 1.12 I 29-37 which has the same phrase "El pronounces the names" ('ilm.yp'r.shmthm) and the scene is one of El designating the mission by giving names. The act of naming Yamm is cast in the language of "divine adoption for a royal figure" and Yamm's mission is to drive Baal from his throne. Smith compares the scene also to the conferral of a regnal name during "the accession of a new monarch" (p. 150). As for the other titles, Yamm is also called mdd 'il "Beloved of El" in KTU 1.3 III 38-39, 1.4 II 34, and 1.4 VII 2-3. The same title is applied to Mot in KTU 1.4 VIII 23-24.

    The name Yw might be connected with the god Ieuo attested by Philo of Byblos (PE 1.9.21), which would have had a cult in Beirut. As for the resemblance to Yahweh, Smith states: "Given the explicit identification of yw with Yamm in 1.1 IV, it seems unlikely yw is historically connected with Yahweh. Assuming the historical accuracy of PE 1.9.21, Ieuo is more likely to be a deity indigenous to Phoenicia than to Israel, and the identification of Ieuo with Yamm/yw, though by no means assured, is preferable to an equation with Yahweh" (p. 152).

    J. C. De Moor also translates the text as follows:

    "My son [shall not be called] by the name of Yw, O goddess ([l.y'pr].shm.bny.yw.'ilt), [but Ym shall be his name!] So he proclaimed the name of Yammu. [Lady Athiratu ?] answered, 'For our maintenance [you are the one who has been proclaimed?], you are the one who has been proclaimed "master" ('adn)' " (KTU 1.1 IV 13-17).

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    thanks for that extra research, someday we may know more.

  • Ianone
  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Ianone...Please don't repeatedly post that stuff that has been patiently shown to be inaccurate and misinformed.

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