Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-16-05 WT Study (Abbreviated)

by blondie 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  heathen

  As far as I can see alcoholics are very similar to any substance abuser . I've heard scienctists say something like, with ciggarette smoking that the brain will send messages that it will die unless it recieves the drug of nicotine , that's why it's very habit forming and hard to quit . You are right that alcoholics can't stop after one drink and don't stop until they are completely out of it and it's an everyday battle that people need some kind of support with . That is what AA is all about . The support is there for people when they need it . I think today people are more worried about drunk driving than anything else . Our society is very dependent on automotive transportation which only makes a drunk far more dangerous than any other point in history . I often do wonder how people get their license to drive to begin with . I've actually read the defensive driving manual that is required to get a license but somehow if you put someone behind the wheel they become brain dead anyway . But that's another topic for discussion LOL ................................................

  I just thank God I don't have the problem of addiction with drugs or alcohol . I do like to drink on occassion but usually not to the point of passing out or throwing up .
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  BrendaCloutier

  Thank you, again Blondie. That was an interesting response on Alcoholism being a disease. I do appreciate your research.

  I've not done ACOA, but I did lots of AA, NA, CoDA, and Alanon. Along with a year of a newly developed, free domestic violence recovery program sponsored by a women's shelter.

  I did some research on the JAMA sight (Journal of Amereican Medical Associasion) and found a 30 year study of adoptees being raised in "normal" alcohol use homes, and the high percentage (over 90%) of the adoptees developing alcoholism, when one or both of their birth parents were alcoholic. "No duh!" was my response.

  I'm adopted. My parents are "normies" (except for JWism). My first alcoholic response to alcohol use was when I was about 13. I didn't start drinking "seriously" until I was 18 and married. But it took hold fast. Before I was 21 I was a daily drunkard! I've since traced my own alcoholism back 5 generations on my birthmother's side.

  When I confronted my Elder dad, he tried to reinforce that alcoholism was a moral issue. I told him that my body doesn't process alcohol normally, just as his body doesn't process sugar normally (he's diabetic and of course diabetes is a disease...)

  One of only two times I've seen my dad speechless! Both in the same conversation.

  Hugs, y'all

  Brenda
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  archangel01

  blondie is always on top of everything. Thanks for having a Heart of Glass.
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  eyeslice

  Wine and other alcoholic beverages like vegetation, bread, and oil, are fine provisions from God.

  This is a reference from Psalms:

  He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for man to cultivate- bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread that sustains his heart.

  I always had a bit of a problem with this when I was a JW, particularly when the issue of alcohol and get togethers came up in elders meetings. The general opinion is that people should never have "too much drink", i.e. drinking should be minimal. However, the above scripture is slightly ambiguous, and suggests to me more than a bear minimum. How much wine do you need to drink to gladden the heart? Surely not just one small glass; you need to drink a few large glasses, i.e. 2 to 3 units of alcohol in an hour, to get the effect of 'gladdening the heart".

  Eyeslice
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  Pistoff

  There just aren't the words to describe how this WT is dangerous.

  I agree with Blondie about the good things here; alcohol use and abuse can lead to many problems.

  But.

  This WT is full of guilt, misunderstanding and shame.

  There is NO discussion of the difference between the casual drinker, the heavy drinker (non-alcoholic) and the alcoholic; not really.

  NO discussion of the disease concept of addiction.

  I counted drinks; I listened to all the admonition about drinking, drunkenness, etc; nothing changed until I acknowledged that I was alcoholic, asked for help and went to recovery.

  But the real help NEVER came from the WT, the congregation or elders. The drinking concept in the congregation is just another example of the cognitive dissonance that defines the org: drinking is allowed by God, provided by God; Jesus made wine for those who were already full of wine, drunk; but don't get drunk, don't overdrink, overdrinking is a MORAL weakness. [Maybe it is for some; it is NOT the same for an addict or alcoholic.]

  Notice the lack of any reference to 12 step programs; this is a big deal that they do not mention it. The liberal wave that allowed the mention of them in the 1983 WT is gone gone gone; back to the old way of thinking.

  I wanted to puke through this study; I had to go- - CO ya know. (more on this later! yuk)

  I wanted so much to raise my hand and talk about alcohol as what it is--a drug. (Who would drink it if it did not get you high, er, relaxed?)

  But that would puncture the self righteous mindset of witnesses, who think of themselves as drug free, wouldn't it?

  Pistoff, of the "so glad I went back to recovery meetings" class.
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  BrendaCloutier

  Basic info on alcohol

  Wine was a way to preserve fruit and fruit juice. It was a means to have liquid when sweet water was unavailable (times of flood, drought, or water fouled by industry).

  Most wines had very little alcohol content, it was more like beer, around 4 or 7 percent. Whereas wines today, with a little extra management of the fruit to feed the yeast which produces the yeast excriment we know of as alcohol, wines can reach up to 14% before the yeast dies off by their own poisoning.

  Meade (honey beer) and beer was developed for many of the same reasons.

  Many ancient racial-social groups had fermented beverages. In many cases, this beverage was used in ceremony, only, and not as a common beverage.

  Racial-social groups who did not have a regularly consumed alcoholic beverage (and processed wheat and sugar) before being introduced by the "white man", tend to develope higher incidents of alcoholism and diabetes: N and S American Indians, Polynesian and Micronesian, and others.

  Jews, inspite of their genetics, do develop alcoholism, usually to a lesser degree than other racial-social groups.

  Alcoholism affects an average of 10% of the population.
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  stillajwexelder

  I am not condoning alcoholic elders and servants -but their workload etc is such - and with so little love in the org - I truly can understand why many turn to drink