by emmamess22 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Mouthy you little sweetie, I've never picked on you ya stinker and you know it.
James....I'm still confused. Mainly....because you never came close to answering my questions I asked you to simply answer. I'm not an ocean and never will be.Me thinks you've been watchin to many old kung fu movies with ol' looney Carradine(<<<<kung fu fighters)
Gumhopper
What you need to do is start reading the bible. Not the poorly and inaccurate New World Translation. Just about any other will do. When I was opeining my eyes and leaving. I bought myself a good NIV (New International Version) I Also bought myself an Interlinear Old and New Testament these can be expensive. I bought mine on line. I started with the New Testament. The Rapture makes a lot more sense then Jesus invisibly coming in 1914. You will be shocked to realize that Jesus really is Lord according to the New Testament. That Abraham was looking forward to his heavenly reward, not an earthly one. And really there is no such thing as a heavenly and eartly class. What Jesus was talking about when he said sheep that were not of this fold was simply that initially those that accepted him were the Jews and the other sheep were the gentiles. Get yourself a good bible! Pray alot and find yorself a good non-denominational Christian Church. There is no need to feel guilty, your are praising the LORD!!!!! It doesn't matter where you do it. Which building you choose to do it in, just do it
Gumby,
Do you honestly think the ultimate answers about existence/life, can be satisfactorily answered via black and white words and understood by the drastically limited capacity of the mind? Life/God/Truth/Reality, whatever you choose to call it, is far too intimate, alive and grand for that my friend.
It can not be known or understood in the same intellectual way as are phenomenal things, but It can be lived. It can be seen and felt in such a way that is infinitely more substantial than any and all mind generated concepts and answers. Can you tell me what a tree is? You could write a book about it, but still you would not touch the actual and real expression of life we call a tree. Yet, you expect someone to answer your deepest questions for you?
I told you where the answers can be found; and the answers you seek can only be answered by you yourself. No one can tell you what you want to know, and if they could you would say they were "nuts" anyway.
You, your authentic being, is the living answer you seek. If you really want answers you would get off your green little butt, and investigate. I can tell you, that you are far more than you believe yourself to be, but what does it matter, if you refuse to lift the rock of your brain and look?
j
This last stretch of posts dealt with identification with the mind (layers) in subtler ways. The essential behavior haven't changed, you have just kind of sliced the deli meat into thinner layers. There's no deeper layers, it's all meat.
I'm sure James would agree that the reason why 'he finds solace' is because he doesn't identify with the mind. When there is that identification, namely I am what I think, then naturally you tend to assume other people function in the same way. So what I am saying is flat out that is not the case, the assumption does not always apply. It may have that appearance, but that simply depends on your perspective. You can believe that everybody ultimately acts out of their mind, that that is the common denominator - and that would be your belief. This is why in the zen tradition they have this idea of no-mind, to describe that difference. It's a matter of getting to the meat, rather than how you're going to slice it. You see that's why the questions really do not apply, the point of reference is not in the mind at all. You might as well ask someone to solve mathematical equations with their bicycle.
By the way, as a footnote I will say some people have hearts that are wiser than their minds, in which case the experience may become distorted by beliefs. This is where it is useful to just experience what you have to experience without interpreting it in a certain framework, to get some clarity on the whole thing. If you've noticed the difference you will know that the mind-coopted version renders it rather shallow and takes away from the authenticity.
Can you tell me what a tree is? You could write a book about it, but still you would not touch the actual and real expression of life we call a tree. Yet, you expect someone to answer your deepest questions for you?
James.....with this concept, nobody knows anything for positive sure.....only what the mind percieves it to be. This fact does not rule out objectivity. If I light a piece of paper on fire.....it will burn up. Regardless of what I percieve, the fact is, the paper is ashes and longer exists as the paper it was. That's not just perception, it's fact.
If man was to find out in the near future how and why life began, it would no longer be a concept in my mind but rather factual evidence of truth. Lets say one of our satelites records on camera, aliens creating things on other planets such as life. Now, life is no longer a concept in peoples minds, it's a known fact because it was seen on camera.
Since these scenario's I mentioned are a posible reality, why exempt the mind from wondering and searching for truth and answers and be content to just live life and appreciate it? I can't seem to do it.
Gumby
Iv4!!!! right on
Gumby XX(hug) (LOve ya !!!!
Dear Gum,
Perhaps some of our problem here is that we are talking apples and oranges.
Your question as to why we are here, has as it's base the assumption that we, as individual beings, are legitimate. The entity you believe yourself to be wants answers pertaining to it's very own little existence, meaning and purpose.
Your questions which pertain to your own individual person-hood, and the other individual person-hoods you see around you, can not be truthfully answered as you hope or wish they could, because (and this is a very BIG because), the person that we believe ourselves to be and the persons we believe others to be, the little entities which are separate from all else, the person you call "me" , and persons we call "them", that exists within capsules of skin, are all, each and every one, MAKE-BELIEVE. They are intellectual and conceptual creations or constructs of the mind. There are bodies running about, but they are not what we truly are, only a very small part.
This, can actually and undeniably be seen first-hand, when (and if) conscious awareness investigates Itself deeply. What remains when identification with a tiny person dissolves, or better said is seen though, is the same exact Consciousness which looks out those eyes now unequivocally understands itself as infinitely vast and unbound. This can not be described as it is too awesome (yet so pristinely unmoving and gentle) for words or for the mind to grasp. It can be and must be seen, realized and lived first-hand to have any real and actual meaning. If not, then it's just seems extreme craziness; as this makes the movie Matrix look like child's play.
There is only ONE Consciousness manifesting as many. When there is true-seeing, then it is unquestionably recognized that the consciousness looking out your eyes and mine, and his and hers, and the cat and dog, and within the tree and the rock, and the moon and the stars is all the same One. There are no more personal and individual questions then; just a deep silent love and respect. Call it God, call it Christ Consciousness or Buddha Mind, words and titles don't matter anymore as they only seem to encapsulate and not reflect the cool-warm freedom and boundlessness.
j
This, can actually and undeniably be seen first-hand, when (and if) conscious awareness investigates Itself deeply. What remains when identification with a tiny person dissolves, or better said is seen though, is the same exact Consciousness which looks out those eyes now unequivocally understands itself as infinitely vast and unbound. This can not be described as it is too awesome (yet so pristinely unmoving and gentle) for words or for the mind to grasp. It can be and must be seen, realized and lived first-hand to have any real and actual meaning.
Did you learn what you just described AFTER you read the book that deals with all this? Just curious.
Gumby
Hi Emma,
I'm inclined to agree with greenpalmtreestillmine (sabrina). I think you should step back take your time and just simply read the word of God straight from the bible, starting with the gospels.Just read the simple message that Jesus was trying to express which was to do good in your life .Treat everyone with love and love God with your whole heart soul and mind. Also simply praying to God each day will give you the strength you need to get you through each day .
But at the same time have a life girl. Enjoy life; we are entitled to do that no matter what people say. That was what we were created for! That was the one thing i hated when i was a JW. you couldnt do this and you couldnt do that .It was only after 10 years of complete boredom that i began to realise that my life was being controlled by a dozen or so men from Brooklynn. One thing i have started doing is celebrating my childs birthday.Ther is no way that i could watch each year pass by and not celebrate such a wonderful occasion. Just watching the smile on her face filled me with joy as she opend the present i gave her a few weeks ago. These are the memories a parent cherishes.
I am very much in the same boat as you as are many people on this sight simply searching for the "truth".I was born into the Catholic religion and stopped going when i was 16. But the one thing that always stood out in my mind even though i was dissillusioned with that religion was that Jesus was a good man and that he had a message to give us. As a Jehovahs witness that view never changed, but i didnt like the way the society kind of kept him in the back ground. I do believe that we pray to God through Jesus Christ but Doesnt the bible say that to Jesus Christ every knee should bend. That is why you need to read about him , his life , his messge and simply follow his footsteps as to how you should walk.
This is the position i am in at the moment and i am in no rush to throw myself into another religion only to find myself in the same position with that of the JWs.So all the best to you in your search and welcome to this site.
Ps By the way i'm off playing golf this weekend with some lads at work (cant wait). No more viewing them as worldly people; ,just simply view them as individuals who like me fancy a game of golf for enjoyment.
One thing i have started doing is celebrating my childs birthday.Ther is no way that i could watch each year pass by
Hey Evergreen did your read the July 8th Awake!!!!!Seems your allowed to celebrate the bithday now----
It seems they are backing down. Says the world dont veiw birthdays in a spiritual light-so it is up to you !!
Next it will probably be Christmas Because most of the world dont veiw that in a spiritual way either....
