by _Atlas 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
"For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life?"
Rom 6:23
For years we been taught that we die because of sin and once you die you have paid your "debt"Lazarus, the son of the widow of Nain, the daughter of Jairus and others died and were subsequently raised from the Seol.
WTS says resurrection was only temporary since they did die later on.
But? Why? Didn?t they settled their debt already? Why did they have to die again?
VERY good observation! They wont like ya if you keep thinking freely like that..;)
Interesting isnt it, they used to quote Romans "He that has died has been aquitted from his sin"! and use that to disprove judgment or life after death/hell etc, however they also apply that same scripture to the annointed and say it is reffering to dying spiritually i.e, they die to self and in their baptism are raised to spiritual life, they use scripture to suit themselves, even if it means giving several conflicting interpretations of the same thing.
Brummie
Atlas,
But? Why? Didn?t they settled their debt already? Why did they have to die again?
Maybe it's because they were not resurrected under the covering of Christ's sacrifice. When they were resurrected they were brought back in the same physical and mental condition they had before their death. This then would be a condition which continued to miss the mark, so to speak, and therefore eventually caused physical death. It's really good imo that they did not continue living until our time. Imagine what it would have been like to be someone who never died yet lived among friends and family who would die continually before our eyes. Also as the Lazarus event showed, in the world as we know it there would always be those who for their own devious reasons would seek the death of one who could not die.
Sabrina
"For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life?"But notice how this logic does not apply to the Jw that makes it into "paradise" without dying, thus never paying for their sin.Rom 6:23
For years we been taught that we die because of sin and once you die you have paid your "debt"
Because the ransom had not been paid.
~Bin
Elderwho wrote:
But notice how this logic does not apply to the Jw that makes it into "paradise" without dying, thus never paying for their sin.
This was what I came to realize when I was a J-dub, and I stopped talking at the door waiting for new light. It seemed clear that everyone had to die.
~Bin
Maybe it's because they were not resurrected under the covering of Christ's sacrifice.
Because the ransom had not been paid.
But notice the case of Dorcas who died circa 36 A.D. (Acts 9:36-42) And was resurrected by Peter.
She died after the sacrifice. And yet she died again after clearing her debt.
Hebrews 11:35 talks about women receiving their dead by resurrection while others will attain a better resurrection
Thought WTS tries to downplay the first part of this versicle it seems to refer to conventional resurrection more than a restatement of a "Better resurrection" like I have heard JWs explain.
And Lazarus himself is said to have lived well after 33 A.D. by the Insight book.
I think this line of reasoning places a dent on the doctrine of the inheritance of Death by sin.
My question is, Why haven?t they try to explain this? (at least I haven't seen one)
It seems like a leak that must be fixed?
(Possibly the members of the GB browsing for ideas for the next study articles will take note)
Atlas
(Never saw it that way Elder... It was in front of my nose all this time)
I asked one of the "annointed" one time what caused their death since they ALREADY had a token to eternal life and they couldn't answer.
Gumby
Hi Atlas,
I by no means have all the answers. Neither do I wish to. (by the way I believe your post mistakenly made it seem I mentioned the ransom in my previous post, I did not.)
Getting back to point, the Apostle Paul indicated that the resurrection had not occurred yet though he wrote years after the death of the Christ. It then would seem that the time when Christ's sacrifice would be applied to the dead and cause them to live forever had not yet arrived. What are your thoughts on the logic of raising up someone who would live for thousands of years before the return of the Christ? Would they be happy do you think?
I'm no longer a JW by the way.
Sabrina
Sorry Sabrina if I came across as rude towards you. It wasn?t my intention. You are right about the posts? I was quoting from two sources and did not specify.
Your post shows a valid explanation as to why they did die again. The reasons that you give about the problems of someone living much more than the regular lifespan of everyone else are also valid. But the underlying question that lingers is the validity of the doctrine of death as a result of sin.
Even the ones resurrected before Christ paid their dues when they died. The simplistic version of the sin = death doctrine does not match this fact.
These people died (and suffered in the process) for their sins and had to go thru it all again. It may be true that until Paul's real resurrection of Christ they shouldn?t live forever and their resurrection could only be temporary, it also may not be logical that they lived forever because of the emotional stability of the individuals.
But the fact that they did die and were resurrected is in direct contraposition against the claim that death comes by inheritance
Being resurrected to die again could be interpreted as being cut off from the "genetic sin" group and having death resurfacing again like an intrinsic fault of human beings.
