The Loss of Innocence.....and Recovering

by Frannie Banannie 27 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Nosferatu

  Before I married, I believed that marriage was a "happily ever after" state of life. That turned out to be a bald-faced lie we were taught as children and there’s just too much crap that’s been dealt to me over the years from the "dating scene," even pre- and post-borganization to even THINK of considering beginning a relationship ever again.

  The borg completely tries to alienate its members from the dating scene. They tell you to ignore your natural feelings of attraction and go with the subject of "spirituality" when it comes to choosing a marriage mate. The borg also tells you that JW marriages are the happiest marriages in the entire world. They compare themselves to worldly marriages that are full of adultery and divorce. They completely fool you to believe that your marriage will be happy as long as you marry in the "truth". The WTS has made marriage a trap, moreso than "worldly" marriages. If you pick the wrong person (even though they're spiritually strong), you're stuck with that person because the WTS commands you to stay with them, or get disfellowshipped.

  When a person finally exits, and realizes they're with the wrong person, much time has passed. It seems like the time has been wasted. But this person is lucky. They actually have a second chance to find a person who is right for them, or enjoy the single life they were pushed out of because dating no longer means marriage.

  You're one of the lucky ones, Frannie. Many JWs stay with the wrong person all their life and never have a second chance. You have the freedom to choose who you date, who you don't, and you don't have a marriage hanging over your head because of some stupid book company.

  The choices are entirely yours, and you don't have to worry about other people's opinions.

  As far as relationships go, crap exists everywhere on both sides of the fence. You have to accept that you're going to step in it once in a while. Don't thow out your shoes just because you stepped in it. Wash it off, and keep on going. The lingering smell will eventually go away too.
• 

  Frannie Banannie

  yes, youth is wasted on the young. Maybe that's why grandchildren have the hypnotic effect that they do, grandparents are trying for one more taste of that innocence, even if vicarious. Being There's point about the brain's wiring is an excellent point as well. Is it the fact that we lose our innocence, or the depth to which we lose it? When I read Jack London, Dickens, goodness, even Dashell Hammit, I can't help but come away with a sense of innocence in their air. It's like comparing "The Maltese Falcon", with it's intrigue and danger as a result of man's greed, to Hannibal Lecter; comparing Beaver Cleaver to John Connor, or Scarlett O'Hara to Madonna. I think our loss of innocence has become a collective thing.

  ((Annanias)) I like your idea about g/parents living vicariously through their g/children (perhaps even their own children?) in an attempt to recapture some of that lost innocence.

  At first and for quite some time, I thought it was just part of the aging process....the accumulation of knowledge and experiences just naturally kicking the props out from under most of our youthful enthusiasm for believing in so many things that we came to acknowlege as incredible. But, while some of this can be attributed to a natural awakening, after "looking around" and seeing so many older people that haven't experienced the "cult thing" STILL have a youthful enthusiasm and utter faith in many of the things I've come to view with extreme skepticism, I feel that a lot of this loss is a direct result of the mode we enter into when uncovering and overturning the discrepancies we found in the doctrines/practices/teachings of the WT-BATS. I don't think this is bad....it's been a terrific learning experience....but I do regret the tremendous sense of loss. And you're right, Annanias. It has become a collective thing.

  Frannie
• 

  gypsywildone

  At first and for quite some time, I thought it was just part of the aging process....the accumulation of knowledge and experiences just naturally kicking the props out from under most of our youthful enthusiasm for believing in so many things that we came to acknowlege as incredible. But, while some of this can be attributed to a natural awakening, after "looking around" and seeing so many older people that haven't experienced the "cult thing" STILL have a youthful enthusiasm and utter faith

  Frannie, IMHO, I think a lot of it is. See Terry's fantasy thread. That's why I said I don't think fairy tales of Cinderella & Sleeping Beauty did anyone any good. Some men might feel that they don't measure up if they can't be that person who "saves" the damsel in distress & be everything. Many women were fed that bs & a part of them still believed in it. Remember that first time you are a teenager in love? Then you get your feelings hurt & learn from it. You never quite look at things the same way again. To me, it is called "wisdom". My daughter has been through it, now the blinders are off & she has a zero tolerance policy for any kind of bad treatment or shit. You watch children go from being naiive, pie in the sky to adults that know a little something.

  If you are refering to religious faith, there are many, many people I have met that do not subscribe to faith in things they can't see. Many people I have met that never had contact with the jws. My husband. My dad. My brother in law. A woman I was talking to at a job recently.

  I never went to church before my mother got into that cult when I was a teenager, & I never believed a word of their crazy nonsense. For a while, I had an absolute pathological hatred of jws from the eperience, but I never had any blind faith before, or after it. I've always had youthful enthusiasm for many things, sometimes it gets on other people's nerves. And I have faith in myself. I don't pray to imaginary things & I don't put it off onto imaginary powers that are going to solve it.

  How were you before you got into the jws? Do you remember? What I am saying is that I don't think you are as different & "damaged" as you think. There are a whole lotta adults you meet that are very jaded & have been married 3 & 4 times. And there are a lot of people you will meet that just get things done, they don't worry about some power or whatever to get help from. I really believe it is common in most adults. The more a person knows, the more common it is.
• 

  Annanias

  An interesting note as to aging and it's effect on our values. I saw a Frontline a couple of months ago that dealt with Pronography in America. One of the "new" pornographers (introduced as the guy who did the "Buttman series". They are serialized?) was really chewing on Larry Flynt because he felt that Flynt and Hustler had become "fat and soft"!
• 

  Frannie Banannie

  You're one of the lucky ones, Frannie. Many JWs stay with the wrong person all their life and never have a second chance. You have the freedom to choose who you date, who you don't, and you don't have a marriage hanging over your head because of some stupid book company.

  The choices are entirely yours, and you don't have to worry about other people's opinions.

  As far as relationships go, crap exists everywhere on both sides of the fence. You have to accept that you're going to step in it once in a while. Don't thow out your shoes just because you stepped in it. Wash it off, and keep on going. The lingering smell will eventually go away too.

  Nos, yer right, of course....and that's why I choose to stay "lucky." I don't hafta step in crap or smell it or taste it anymore to recognize it, and I certainly don't wish to experience it.

  Frannie, IMHO, I think a lot of it is. See Terry's fantasy thread. That's why I said I don't think fairy tales of Cinderella & Sleeping Beauty did anyone any good. Some men might feel that they don't measure up if they can't be that person who "saves" the damsel in distress & be everything. Many women were fed that bs & a part of them still believed in it. Remember that first time you are a teenager in love? Then you get your feelings hurt & learn from it. You never quite look at things the same way again. To me, it is called "wisdom". My daughter has been through it, now the blinders are off & she has a zero tolerance policy for any kind of bad treatment or shit. You watch children go from being naiive, pie in the sky to adults that know a little something.

  If you are refering to religious faith, there are many, many people I have met that do not subscribe to faith in things they can't see. Many people I have met that never had contact with the jws. My husband. My dad. My brother in law. A woman I was talking to at a job recently.

  I never went to church before my mother got into that cult when I was a teenager, & I never believed a word of their crazy nonsense. For a while, I had an absolute pathological hatred of jws from the eperience, but I never had any blind faith before, or after it. I've always had youthful enthusiasm for many things, sometimes it gets on other people's nerves. And I have faith in myself. I don't pray to imaginary things & I don't put it off onto imaginary powers that are going to solve it.

  How were you before you got into the jws? Do you remember? What I am saying is that I don't think you are as different & "damaged" as you think. There are a whole lotta adults you meet that are very jaded & have been married 3 & 4 times. And there are a lot of people you will meet that just get things done, they don't worry about some power or whatever to get help from. I really believe it is common in most adults. The more a person knows, the more common it is.

  (((Gypsy))) You're one of the "lucky ones", cher. You sound as though you've had both feet on the ground all your life. I trusted the advice of too many other ppl in my life, but no more.

  An interesting note as to aging and it's effect on our values. I saw a Frontline a couple of months ago that dealt with Pronography in America. One of the "new" pornographers (introduced as the guy who did the "Buttman series". They are serialized?) was really chewing on Larry Flynt because he felt that Flynt and Hustler had become "fat and soft"!

  Interesting, Annanias.

  Frannie
• 

  gypsywildone

  As for part of your first post, are you wishing that you were able to have a "faith" in something that you cannot see? Is that what you were wishing you had, the kind of faith some other people have?

  And are you able to remember how jaded you were before you got into the jws? Or do you feel you were not jaded in young adulthood, UNTIL the jw experience? Before that, were you somewhat jaded after the first time you had your heart broken?

  I lowered my font now, because someone thought I was yelling.
• 

  Frannie Banannie

  As for part of your first post, are you wishing that you were able to have a "faith" in something that you cannot see? Is that what you were wishing you had, the kind of faith some other people have?
  

  And are you able to remember how jaded you were before you got into the jws? Or do you feel you were not jaded in young adulthood, UNTIL the jw experience? Before that, were you somewhat jaded after the first time you had your heart broken?

  I lowered my font now, because someone thought I was yelling.

  LOL, Gyps!! (re: yelling font)

  While I don't now wish to return to a state of innocence in my ability to believe in things, I just wish that I hadn't come to the circumstances and conditions where I lost the ability. Ignorance IS bliss in some cases.

  I was only 28 when I was introduced to the jdubs, Gyps...not even jaded about romance yet. I didn't "jade" easily.

  Even so, I don't believe the jdub experience is wholly responsible for this loss....it just exacerbated it very much....either that or it was the "icing on the cake."

  I still have hope that I will come across a new idea that will give birth to a whole new world of discovery....I DO have some ideas about that, but I will definitely research and test them before putting any faith in 'em....so I don't feel like it's a total loss, after all.....can't seem to "kill" that "Pollyanna" in me

  Frannie
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  One reason that I don't have close friends, other than Andy, is that I am afraid to trust friends. I have been burned too many times. I have been married a couple of times. I'm afraid to get married again because I am afraid of failure. Somehow, I still manage to be pretty content though. I am hoping to heal. I think I do, a little each day.

  I will never trust anyone who is telling me they know "the TRUTH" again. I think you stamp the word sucker on your forehead in neon colors when you look for "the TRUTH." I don't think any of us are going to know the 100% truth in this life. I feel much more comfortable with someone who admits, "We don't have all of the answers."
• 

  Frannie Banannie

  One reason that I don't have close friends, other than Andy, is that I am afraid to trust friends. I have been burned too many times. I have been married a couple of times. I'm afraid to get married again because I am afraid of failure. Somehow, I still manage to be pretty content though. I am hoping to heal. I think I do, a little each day.

  I will never trust anyone who is telling me they know "the TRUTH" again. I think you stamp the word sucker on your forehead in neon colors when you look for "the TRUTH." I don't think any of us are going to know the 100% truth in this life. I feel much more comfortable with someone who admits, "We don't have all of the answers."

  A HUGE "high 5" to both of those paragraphs, ((((Flyin'!)))) I totally understand and agree. I don't believe we could handle the "truth" if we knew it.

  Frannie
• 

  gypsywildone

  Right on FHN! (gawd, I MISS that larger font!). Anyone who starts telling other people they have THE TRUTH should raise all those red flags!

  Frannie, what I had in mind was my Catholic friend Angie that was raised Catholic. When something catastrophic happens she can pray to something that she believes in. Because she was RAISED that way. It comforts her, & she actually BELIEVES it works. People that were not raised that way I'm thinking would have a hard time getting anything like that in adulthood & believing in it.

  Goodness Frannie, I would think by 28 you would have had your heart broken a couple times & become jaded. For me, it's fool me twice, shame on YOU. I never became a man hater, & have known lots of fine men that I've had (and have) utmost respect for. But I think you get a little gun shy after a bad experience. Frannie, just heard a country song called Wedding Song, or something like that & it was some check singing about look at the bride, she is so young & sweet, and she don't know nothin', I'm glad I'm not the bride.

  My husband sees people differently, it might be a man thing. I don't know, I never asked one. But he meets people & waits for them to "prove" themselves to him. He is a first impression kinda guy & holds people at bay. It might also be because he has a great talent & has been used to people trying to suck up to him & be his "friend" before. I meet people & try not to jump to first conclusions & like them till they act up or do something to me.

  You know, his way actually seems to work better, come to think of it! If I had more of his attitude & less tolerance for "interesting" people, I might not have had some of the trouble that I have had. Any way you lose your innocence & belief that mankind is basically good is never pleasant, for sure!