Text from Ex, she has met some nice JW's and needs some advice. (must read)

by AlanB 12 Replies latest social relationships

  • AlanB
    AlanB

    I had a text message from an ex last week, she wanted to meet to discuss some JW's she had met that were really nice people but wanted some advice.

    So the other night I drove over to a town in the North West of England to meet her and a really bizarre story unfolded.

    We shall call our heroine Julie who has recently moved into a new house along with her two children who we shall call Janet and John, both children are in their early teens, Julie is mid 30's.

    Shortly after moving in a tall dark handsome window cleaner, also in his mid 30's, turns up and establishes a window cleaning round in the new estate. It is no surprise that the window cleaner turns out to be a JW. Soon the JW window cleaner who we shall call Bill is coming in for a cup of tea and a chat and Bill makes it clear that he is religious and does talk about the bible a lot. There appears to be some attraction between Bill who is single and Julie. From what Julie has explained she is not imagining this.

    Weeks go by and one night Julie is in a bar in town with a friend when she sees, Bill and two other men in the same bar. They come over and spend the evening as a group. All three are JW's and it appears that one of the other men, we shall call Ben is the uncle of Bill. Ben is in his mid 40's and appears to be almost a father figure for Bill. Eventually Ben leaves and the two other men are left in the company of Julie and her friend. Bill and Julie end up dancing, and although there is some attraction Bill seems uncomfortable with this.

    After this Ben always seems to be around when Bill is cleaning the windows at Julie's house. They have a cup of tea afterwards and the bible is discussed, although interestingly no literature has been left at this stage. Julie says that she finds some of the things they say patronising. Bill told her that it must be so difficult for her being a catholic. Now Julie is not a devout catholic, however she does believe, sometimes goes to church, is trying to bring up he children with some values. Julie mentions that she used to go out with someone who was a Witness and left (i.e. me), Bill almost freaks out and tells her that I obviously was weak and did not have the faith. (Bleeding Cheek !!!!) Ben seems quite calm about it.

    During this time, Julie finds out a bit about Bill & Ben. They have been witnesses for around 16 years, Bill joined when he was 17 and is a virgin. Ben it appears joined around the same time around the time his marriage broke up. Ben appears to have some problem since then trusting women. Bill spends some time with her children and they like him.

    One Sunday Julie was coming out of church with her mother and children. The church happens to be round the corner from the Kingdom Hall. The children see Bill coming out of the hall and they go over to talk to him. Ben is in the car and appears very uncomfortable with the situation. Ben practically ignores Julie except just as he is getting into the car with Ben, he says to Julie, "I shall be round to do your windows next week".

    Julie is confused about all of this. On the one hand, Bill does appear attracted to her and there has been some very minor flirting. When he is not with Ben he is more relaxed and more himself. When Ben is around he appears much different. Also she says that some of the things they say and the incident outside the hall makes her feel guilty or worthless.

    I explained to Julie that she should not feel that way, that they are the ones with the problem not her. I explained that for her coming over to speak to someone she knew in the street was totally normal behaviour. I then explained why Bill and Ben would have felt uncomfortable about it and explained the situation from a witness perspective. I explained to her what it means to be a witness and how rigid their rules are and how they seek to convert people. I also explained the situation surrounding dating from their perspective and some of the alternative aspects of their history. I was able to answer a number of Julie?s questions and concerns. I know Julie well and she does not wish to become a JW, she knows that it would be bad for her and that they would attempt to force her into the JW mould, which would destroy her. I have seen this situation happen myself in my old congregation and know exactly how this would pan out.

    The plot then thickens. Julie sees Bill in town and there is some more flirting, it is clear that Bill is interested, yet confused by it.

    Later Julie has a problem with her son, around 14 he has got into some bad company and she is worried about this. One afternoon Bill turns up to do the windows, chaperoned by Ben. She explains the problem with her son and Ben goes out to the car and comes back with two YPA books. Bill goes upstairs to 'talk' to her son John. Whilst Bill is upstairs, Ben gets the other book and starts showing Julie some of the chapters on dating and crushes. !!!!! Julie is clear exactly why he is showing her these things.

    When Bill returns downstairs, Ben tells he that they love them all and want to help them. He invites them out for a meal this weekend, Bill, Ben, Julie and the two children. This is why Julie wanted to talk to me as she wishes to understand what is going on.

    =========

    My analysis of the situation.

    From Bills perspective.

    I believe that Bill is interested in Julie and (as I have been there myself) fantasises that Julie and her children will become JW's so that he can date her properly. At this stage he has probably convinced himself that there is nothing wrong in this and may have convinced himself that this is how it will work out and that he can resist temptation.

    From Ben's perspective.

    There is something about Julie?s description of Ben that convinces me he has some responsibility in the congregation, MS at least. He is clearly concerned for Bill as he is obviously developing a crush on Julie. Ben would hope that Julie at least can become an 'Interested Person" then it would not be so awkward if they are seen talking outside the KH. Ben would also like Julie to study and become a JW as it would defuse the danger with Bill, and also what a great 'experience from the platform' when he can demonstrate how Julie, a single mother who had turned to drugs (bit of pot) and was 'so much happier' since finding the 'Truth'.

    From the Congregations Perspective.

    If the reality of the situation got out it would create a scandal of epic proportions that Bill had a crush on one of his window cleaning clients, a single mother into drugs and a catholic, had been seen dancing with her in a bar.

    From Julie?s Perspective.

    Julie is attracted to Bill and is convinced that he is himself when not in Ben's company. She respects his religion and is not intending to corrupt him. She does not wish to become a JW, nor does she wish to 'rescue' Bill as she believes she may end up with someone different. I do not believe she knows exactly what to do yet, although I think she is coming to the conclusion that she should leave well alone. She would value them as friends.

    ==========

    We talked about this for hours and I was able to answer many of her questions and I was able to get a very good picture of the situation. I do find it a little odd that they would invite her out for a meal and am unsure of the differing agenda's from Bill and Ben?s perspective.

    Julie will keep me informed and it will be interesting to see how this one pans out.

  • jwbot
    jwbot

    I think you are dead on about the perspectives.

    Bill was obviously uncomfortable about her talking to him on the street because of a "what will the others think" kind of thinking. It is so rude the way he treated her. This is the reason why JW's can not really form meaningful relationships with those in and outside the religion, esp. with members of the opposite sex. If she wan'ts any meaningful and fulfilling relationship, its not going to be with Bill.

  • unique1
    unique1

    Yeah seems like you have it down. WOW.

    Seems like Julie should tell Bill exactly how she feels when they are alone and see if he sticks around. ie. hey I don't want to be a witness and don't want to convert you either, but if you wanna date sometime let's do it. I hope it works out for her.

  • Terry
    Terry

    The majority of JW's under the age of senility lead double lives (if only in their own mind).

    They have to have the religious fantasy life with the Kingdom Hall, door to door, happy talk with the brothers,etc. And then, there is the hidden, compartmentalized life of longing for a normal place in the world.

    The majority of brothers lead desperate lives of personl unfullfillment. They mostly have lousy jobs like janitors and window cleaners and grunt work. They never earn much money or put any away for a rainy day. They don't FEEL like good providers. They feel like losers. They are.

    A sane JW brother has sexual feelings he can't begin to deal with in the religious frame of mind. He then either has an active fantasy life (internet porn, strip bars, dating worldly girls) or he splits his personality into an actual predatory search.

    A lot of JW men I've know constantly flirt with danger. i.e. women. They WANT to be swept away in passion. Why? They have none in their lives.

    JW brothers are socially and sexually retarded for the most part and cannot break free from the brainwashing that distorts them and stifles expression. Sublimation plays an extraordinary role in the lives of religiously repressed people. They try to HELP you and in doing so, convert sexuality into religious expressions.

    The similarity between Catholic priests and JW men is quite a parallel. Guilt, fantasy, self-hatred and repressed passions can warp their personalities. Not always--but, often enough to cause others a lot of problems.

    What does Bill have going for him other than the fact he is single and hot-looking?

    NOTHING!

    End of story.

    Terry

  • Bubbamar
    Bubbamar

    OR.....Ben is secretly in love with Bill who has a history of having sex with worldy girls, getting into to trouble and repenting. Why on earth would a "normal" grown man chaperone another "normal" grown man?? That's just another crazy example of the extremes to which JW's go. Its crazy - and I hope your friend runs as fast as she can in the opposite direction of this poor confused weak man.

    BTW - I was just being funny about Ben & Bill---I'm sure your assessment is right on.

  • La Capra
    La Capra

    From Bill's perspective two studies have already been started!!!!! All the time the B's spend with the J's is now being counted on a time card. This is one additional fact of which Julie should be made aware. To a certain extent, she is just a number to the B's, and since Ben has a crush, the time he counts on her "sort of" legitimizes his feelings. If they were really above board about it they would be sending over a "nice pioneer sister" or "mature elder's wife" and avoiding conversations with Julie entirely. Instead they turn the business (really, how often do people get their windows cleaned in Britain-here in California it's once or twice a year!) relationship into a quasi-social (informal -brainwashing) one to Julie and a quasi-spiritual one for them (let the rationalizations and compartmentalizations begin). If it weren't their own business they would have been sacked.

    Shoshana

  • avishai
    avishai

    Bubbamar. Your assesment may not be that far off.

    Bill joined when he was 17 and is a virgin

    OK, Something seriously wrong with this. Sorry, you can moralize at me all you want. Being 34 and a virgin, there's just something wrong with you, period.

  • kls
    kls

    I think you are right on with your conclusion but this hole story gives me the creeps. Tell her to forget the windows and loose the weirdoes. The only end that will happen if these weirdoes stick around is she will be confused and recruited into a life we are still fighting to rid our minds of.

  • codeblue
    codeblue

    Please tell your friend to run and run as fast as she can from Bill and his friend. Tell her to learn how to wash her own windows!!!

    While reading your story, I immediately felt like Bubbamar and Avishai.

    Bill is a virgin, comes in the truth(tm). Ben joins at the SAME time, loosing his marriage and distrusts women. Ben has to chaperone Bill???

    Now, there are many HUGE red flags to me!!!!

    Codeblue

  • bikerchic
    bikerchic

    I'm shocked!l

    I had no idea people should have their window cleaned so often...........after reading this I feel so dirty.

    Kate (of the ya gotta let 'em live their lives class......whatever happens, happens)

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