Comments You Will Not Hear at the 8-8-04 WT Study (Abbreviated)

by blondie 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • blondie
    blondie

    Thanks, SNG,

    Many are sisters looking for a new field to find husbands. Others are bored with the English congregations or looking for the Christian love they aren?t finding.

    This was clearly the case with most people I knew that switched to a foreign language group. Being in a foreign language group at least gives you a taste of something exciting, and there's always that hope that new and better things are there.

    I heard many complaints from the Spanish-speaking core of those congregations, that people would come looking for husbands and not spend much time learning the language to participate in the ministry or in the meetings. I know of people that went down to places such as the Dominican Republic especially for that reason, stayed until they found a husband or their money ran out, usually about a year.

    Good point, Maverick,

    The WTS claim to preach the message of the Christ. While they acknowledge many millions of people have not been reached, they accept no blame for this fact putting it off on God, or the governments or anybody but themselves. In lands where they can preach without too much opposition they still accept no blame if the work does not progress, putting that blame on the worker bees who don't have the right spirit.

    Yes, the rank and file are always to blame.

    I looked up 1 Thessalonians 4:16 in the NWT, Will Power.

    because

    the Lord* himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel?s voice and with God?s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 1 THESSALONIANS 4:16

    *

    Footnote Rbi8 1 Thessalonians 4:16

    "The Lord,"

    אABVg; J 7,8,13,14 , "Jehovah."

    It is interesting how quick the WTS is to insert Jehovah in the OT where it never occurred, yet at this juncture it does not because it would interfere with their pet little doctrine about Jesus not Jehovah having an archangel?s voice. The smaller NWTs would not have this information and few JWs look at the footnotes in the larger NWT.

    Notice what insertion they make in this quote from the Insight Book Volume 2 page 1161 under "Voice"?

    The apostle Paul said, when writing to the Thessalonian congregation about the gathering of God?s anointed holy ones: "

    The Lord [Jesus Christ] himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel?s voice and with God?s trumpet." (1Th 4:16)

    Hi jgnat,
    Any one who claims to represent Jesus, yet does not bear the fruit of love, joy, peace, kindness, etc., etc. does not belong to Him.

    The WTS talks about the fruit and trots out some rare occurrence of it, but those of us who have been in the congregations day after day, year after year, have not seen it or experienced it. I can remember growing up with an abusive father being told that he told me just because he was my biological father. After all fathers must love their children because that is what fathers do, right? After never seeing it in action, I finally wised up; the same is true of the WTS.

    Cybersista

    , don?t we know it!
    Morbid fear would have been a wrong motive for obeying Christ?.Today, we likewise do not use fear or similar negative emotions, such as guilt and shame, to coerce others into obeying Christ

    Look at brother/sister Many Troubles; they are regular pioneering, why aren?t you?

    Hi, lurk,

    why should everyone asume the WTS is the correct channel

    My husband noticed just before he stepped aside as an elder that the BOE letters referred less and less to scriptures to support their views. The only one they kept using was Matthew 24:45-47. We are the slave so you have to listen to us. No proof that they are the slave and continue to be the slave, to follow Christ, just we are the slave, we tell you what the scriptures mean and if there is no scripture, remember we are the slave, Matthew 24:45-47.

    Hi wannaexit,

    What always baffled me were the ones that went to the effort of learning Spanish or French for the purpose of helping these foreign congs and then turn around and go back to the English congregation. The reason being that these smaller congs were not a big enough stepping stone in their goal to climb the so called "spiritual ladder".

    I find that is sometimes brothers go to Bethel and stay only about 5 years and then return to the congregation. Before their excursion, they were not considered qualified to be a MS or an elder; when they return they are held up as shining examples, get married, get appointed, get used on assembly/convention parts and you always hear, "they were at Bethel," as if they visited heaven and returned to tell us about it.

    Very good, Cyberguy,

    Par. 9: "Today, we likewise do not use fear or similar negative emotions, such as guilt and shame, to coerce others into obeying Christ."

    Oh really? Then why do they keep a monthly record of our field service hours? Can a person pass microphones if they don?t meet the hourly average?
    How does most of the flock treat widows, orphans, and sickly ones, if they don?t measure-up regarding meeting attendance and hours in field service? How are such ones treated? If a "servant" is removed from his "privileges" how is he treated by others, including elders?

    Microphones, I can remember a congregation that had few brothers that qualified by hours to do the mikes. The CO said they couldn?t use sisters and that the elders had to do it?.as if the elders would stoop that low.

    Good point, the WTS mentions that only those in "good standing" can be helped and they gauge that on hours and meeting attendance.

    Even if a servant/elder steps down for personal reasons, they are punished because the other elders and MS get stuck with more chores.

    Hey Oxnard,

    Do they hold guns to our heads? No. Must we comply with their rules unquestioningly in order to remain a part of their flock? Yes.

    Emotional blackmail is so much more effective.

    Excellent comments, folks.

    Blondie

  • dothemath
    dothemath

    The comment about 5000 being baptized on average each week..............I recall doing a part on statistics around 10 or 12 years ago, and the average per day was around 1200- so the numbers have dropped quite a bit.

    This isn't mentioned in the watchtower, but the average has come down from about 8400/week, to the 5000/week now.

  • blondie
    blondie

    dothemath, the WTS uses stats deceptively. They tend to forget that 3/4 of the followers left after 1925 and that 1978 and 1979 chalked up decreases due to the disappointment in 1975.

    Blondie

  • Tyre
    Tyre
    He is the archangel and as such commands a heavenly army of hundreds of millions of angels. (1 Thessalonians 4:16; 1 Peter 3:22; Revelation 19:14-16).

    1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.

    If Jesus is Michael the archangel in the 1 Thessalonians 4:16 then He is must be a 'trumpet' (if use the same logic)

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    I want to show my gratitude?Hannelore (baptized 1954)?we are supported by angels (hmmmm?)?Honor (baptized in 1969)?when Jehovah?s time of judgment comes, I do not want anyone in the neighborhood to be able to charge Jehovah and his Witnesses with negligence and say, I never received a warning.......

    So, I guess for whatever else He's capable of, including creating and maintaining the infinite universe and of recreating via resurrection every human who's ever lived, God Almighty's incapable of considering mitigating circumstances, right Hannelore?

  • blondie
    blondie

    Tyre, did you see the comment above about how the NWT footnotes Jehovah as being "the Lord" mentioned in 1 Thessalonians but then in the Insight book inserts "Jesus Christ." They WTS is so deceptive. This was one of the first "doctrines" I tried to prove to a bible student and was frustrated to see that the "proofi" was very flimsy and non-existent. I wondered why the WTS was so insistent on forcing this understanding except that it is a so-called support against the trinity. (Correction n previous comment: that should be NT not OT)

    Room 215, isn't it amazing how JWs are think that God needs humans to accomplish his purpose. What happened to the rocks crying out and being good-for-nothing slaves doing what we ought?

    Blondie

  • itsallgoodnow
    itsallgoodnow

    How many times did they use "Jesus command" in that article? As if Jesus only had that one command. I guess where the documents state Jesus didn't want his people to judge others, that was only a suggestion, not a command?

    They really have that psychological stuff down, but will they use it for evil or for good? I wonder. I'm convinced they know what they are doing, from the top down to at least the CO level.

  • Tyre
    Tyre

    yup, you are right? I saw it

    thanks, Blondie.

  • lurk
    lurk

    Anyone interested....please do a search of Michael on any of the CDs, you'll find a few articles that use 1 Thes 4:16 to prove Jesus is Michael .

    "The Lord* himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel?s voice and with God?s trumpet." (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

    Notice the asterisk beside the word Lord - when you look up this footnote it says - Jehovah. .....will power

    looked up 1 Thessalonians 4:16 in the NWT, Will Power.

    because

    the Lord* himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel?s voice and with God?s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 1 THESSALONIANS 4:16

    *

    Footnote Rbi8 1 Thessalonians 4:16

    "The Lord,"

    אABVg; J 7,8,13,14 , "Jehovah."

    It is interesting how quick the WTS is to insert Jehovah in the OT where it never occurred, yet at this juncture it does not because it would interfere with their pet little doctrine about Jesus not Jehovah having an archangel?s voice. The smaller NWTs would not have this information and few JWs look at the footnotes in the larger NWT.

    Notice what insertion they make in this quote from the Insight Book Volume 2 page 1161 under "Voice"?

    The apostle Paul said, when writing to the Thessalonian congregation about the gathering of God?s anointed holy ones: "

    The Lord [Jesus Christ] himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel?s voice and with God?s trumpet." (1Th 4:16

    i looked in my NWT and compared it to a oxford revised KJV

    1 thessolonians 1:8 ,4:6,4:16 all are differant

    in the Oxford KJV it says Lord but the WNT says jehovah ....

    ok so i know that gods name was removed..but how do you tell if they were right to use jehovah not Lord?

    My husband noticed just before he stepped aside as an elder that the BOE letters referred less and less to scriptures to support their views. The only one they kept using was Matthew 24:45-47. We are the slave so you have to listen to us. No proof that they are the slave and continue to be the slave, to follow Christ, just we are the slave, we tell you what the scriptures mean and if there is no scripture, remember we are the slave, Matthew 24:45-47.

    this si what started the niggling feelings in my head blondie ...i felt i had lost my sense of identity and power to say yes and no etc .(plus a discussion over 1975 swept aside as "oh just a few people thought that"

    lurk

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